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Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 03:42:47 AM

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betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 09:59:59 PM

#188

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 12:06:02 AM

and it doesn't hurt that the added value comes from the opportunity to win very, very big.

But that's worthless because if someone wins "very, very big" you just said that they won't be able to withdraw that money EVER.

What? I said that there have been people that have withdrawn the 888x bonus, and that is twice as hard to unlock. You (probably) won't 'EVER' win the lottery either, but we're giving you the chance to give our system a shot with zero risk and you still might walk out with a sizeable amount of money in your pocket.

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Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 09:59:59 PM

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DarkDays

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December 22, 2015, 10:09:07 PM

#189

Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 03:42:47 AM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 12:06:02 AM

and it doesn't hurt that the added value comes from the opportunity to win very, very big.

But that's worthless because if someone wins "very, very big" you just said that they won't be able to withdraw that money EVER.

No, what you said (both on your site and on here) is that you are only allowed to cash out your deposit + your bonus if you clear rollover. That means if I deposit 1BTC and get a 3BTC bonus, the max I can withdraw is 4BTC. So if I hit a "very, very big" jackpot, say 100BTC, I can never withdraw it. Thus then worthless.

betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 10:14:06 PM

#190

Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 10:09:07 PM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 09:59:59 PM

Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 03:42:47 AM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 12:06:02 AM

and it doesn't hurt that the added value comes from the opportunity to win very, very big.

But that's worthless because if someone wins "very, very big" you just said that they won't be able to withdraw that money EVER.

301% return of your deposit on a no-risk deposit bonus is a pretty big jackpot.

If you hit a very big jackpot with bonus funds, you're not playing the game with your own money - the game you are playing is basically the bonus, and you're using the games on the site to unlock it. The bonus is sort of a game on its own that carries zero-to-no risk.

While I see and respect your viewpoint, I don't agree with it.

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Quote from: Trayber on December 22, 2015, 02:45:09 AM

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Trayber

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December 22, 2015, 10:15:38 PM

#191

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 12:06:02 AM

Quote from: dooglus on December 21, 2015, 11:52:15 PM

Maybe I'm making my posts too long.

Suppose I deposit 1 BTC. I get 3.01 extra, for a total of 4.01 BTC. I then wager enough to clear the bonus, and end up with 100 BTC in my balance. How much of my balance will you let me keep, and how much will you confiscate? Can I withdraw 3.01, because that's the bonus amount, or 4.01? What if I deposit a further 10 BTC before I have finished clearing the bonus. Then how much can I withdraw once it is clear?

The amount available for withdraw after you unlock the bonus is the original bonus amount. We will not ever make your deposit unavailable to withdraw, so in your case the amount to withdraw would be 4.01 BTC.

When you deposit your own money into the bonus and bet you're not wagering the original amount toward the bonus and therefore the bonus is cancelled. Even if the bonus wasn't cancelled the 10 BTC would still be able to be withdrawn because it's your deposit, not bonus funds.

It isn't supposed to be an appealing amount to someone looking for a reliable way to make money, as these are games of chance. We give you a fair shot to unlock the bonus, and however unlikely as it may be (no-deposit bonus as I said is about 1/1000, and match bonus is somewhere in the ballpark of 1/750 - these aren't your odds these are the users that successfully unlock it) you can do it. It's very similar to a lottery ticket. A huge +EV for players at a low to minimal cost, but pretty unlikely. The purpose of these bonuses is to show that our system works and make you comfortable with the system and its functionalities, and it doesn't hurt that the added value comes from the opportunity to win very, very big.

The games are provably fair, the reward is high (but unlikely), and the risk in these types of bonuses (especially the no-deposit bonus) are minimal to none.

That being said, we are working on making our deposit bonus a bit different to give good EV to depositors over time. That's in the pipeline but nowhere near being ready to give any concrete numbers or even speculate as to how it would work.

Thanks for the explanation and seems like its not a bonus for everyone. Myself I would never want to deposit that much and be tied to so such high wagering. IMO, those type of bonuses are for suckers.

Anyways, now that you talk about the provability and fairness of games but can you fix the blackjack. You have only blackjack game on planet where the dealer hits a hard 17 just because he drew an Ace at some point. This might help players somtimes but at other times going to burn player when he has made 18-21 and dealer hits bs hard 17 to beat him and player get upset because thats NOT how the rules work in blackjack game. Your sites been up for a long time I find it tough believe that no one has brought this to your attention sooner and why it hasn't already been fixed. Now that I think about it can you link me to your Rules page for Blackjack, I had a hard time finding out the rules on your game. If you have it set to for dealer to hit hard 17 then so be it but I would like to to read the rules.

Please address this and when you plan to fix the blackjack. Also I'd like a link or where I can find out the rules of your blackjack (i.e. how many decks/doubles and split rules etc.)

DarkDays

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December 22, 2015, 10:17:25 PM

#192

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:14:06 PM

The "risk" is that you can't get the funds that you win.

betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 10:33:05 PM

#193

Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 10:17:25 PM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:14:06 PM

The "risk" is that you can't get the funds that you win.

Winning, in this case, means unlocking the bonus. You get the original bonus amount for unlocking it.

The crux of this for me is that the wagering requirements, in general, of other establishments have to do with actual deposited funds, and with us the bonus amount is included. So the game may seem harder or less likely, but the outcome is better in our case. You don't have to continually deposit funds to unlock your bonus, which creates -EV. Our bonus, however unlikely, has a high +EV for depositors (and non-depositors).

Highest BTC Payouts in the World!
Truly a one-stop casino for any player| 301% Deposit Bonus

Highest BTC Payouts in the World!
Truly a one-stop casino for any player| 301% Deposit Bonus

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betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 10:35:21 PM

#194

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Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:35:21 PM

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mirana12345

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PM me to buy traffic for your site!

December 22, 2015, 10:36:34 PM

#195

Why are so many people only interested in bonuses and promos, instead of looking the site as any other gambling site, just play and have fun ?
imho the most important thing should be allowing instant cashouts, like many other competitor sites have done. Everything else seams spot on.

Already following

betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 10:41:51 PM

#196

Quote from: mirana12345 on December 22, 2015, 10:36:34 PM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:35:21 PM

Already following

Once your account has been aged, you'll get access to instant withdrawals. With the volume of accounts that have been created recently, most users won't have access to this feature yet - however, over time you will. We feel that this not only protects us, but it protects you as well.

Our system "gets to know you", and if anything happens out of the ordinary on your account we can catch it early or reach out to you directly. Yes, we have 2FA and signed messages, but you can never be too careful. While we see that this issue makes a lot of people a bit uneasy (sometimes cashouts can take a while), we believe that in the longrun it is safer for our players. So, for now, we're going to keep this feature.

It's understandable that you don't share our position, we hope that you understand that we believe it is in your best interest.

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Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:33:05 PM

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DarkDays

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December 22, 2015, 10:52:26 PM

#197

Our bonus, however unlikely, has a high +EV for depositors (and non-depositors).

That's not true.

Let's use the above example. I deposit 1BTC. I get 3.01BTC as a bonus. I now have 4.01BTC to gamble with. Let's, for the moment, completely ignore that I can only ever cash out a max of 4.01BTC, which completely negates any positive variance I may experience (that is to say, if I get lucky I won't get the money...if I get unlucky I'll still lose money). For me to be able to withdraw I'll need to gamble the 4.01BTC 388x. So I need to wager 1555.88BTC.

In order for this offer to be +ev, I'd need to have 1.01BTC in my account after I finish the rollover. For that to be true, your games would have to only have a .2% hold.

Do your games have 99.8% or higher payback? Because if not, this deal is NOT +ev for depositors.

betcointm (OP)

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December 22, 2015, 11:05:40 PM

#198

Quote from: DarkDays on December 22, 2015, 10:52:26 PM

Quote from: betcointm on December 22, 2015, 10:33:05 PM

Our bonus, however unlikely, has a high +EV for depositors (and non-depositors).

The expected value of unlocking the bonus is the 3.01 BTC. If you were to cash out 4.01 BTC after starting with 1... I am not exactly sure how that is not a positive value.

When you unlock the rollover requirements, the 3 BTC is what you unlock - not your 1 BTC deposit.

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