CoinCube, perhaps my elucidation wasn't entirely clear (perhaps because I wrote that at 1am my time and should have been sleeping instead).
My primary point was not whether collectivism is right or wrong, but that some millions of Americans have the attitude that individualism is superior to collectivism and that I know of no natively born European who has that attitude. Actually I know of one 30-something man from this forum who was I assume was born and lives in Sweden, and he seems to favor some individualistic themes but I doubt he would sacrifice his life with a gun in his cold dead hand for individualism. Also I know of bigtimespaghetti who is younger, immigrated to Europe from apparently a peripheral area, and who has some good logic regarding some individualistic rights but if I am not mistaken he also sympathizes with the social contract as well. These guys also appear to be influenced by what ever culture and environment they are in, but it might also be already ingrained if they tried to move to an environment of rugged individualism. I am not sure. But also consider these 2 guys to be exceptional and that is why they are my recent new friends. I know of another younger European who I don't know too well, except that he is very astute about crypto investing and what is going on in the crypto world, so I assume he may be very individualist focused in his philosophy of social organization, but I haven't really gotten to know that side of him well. So again I am open to learning about exceptions and how prevalent these exceptions are. I would love to know there are European brothers who are fighting for the ideals of individualism as some Americans are.
I also said America has many subsets of attitudes, but that a major fault line divides those that embrace collectivism from those who are staunchly individualistic. Most of the latter (including myself) favor collectivism only on the local community level (e.g. the white Sunday church on the hill where needy people can ask their pastor to help them find a sympathetic community member to offer them some work or helping hand). In short, there are some millions of Americans who absolutely hate the big government social contract. But Europeans embrace a consultation about the EU and nation-state social programs, whereas there are some few millions of Americans who abhor ObamaCare and any involvement of big government in daily life of the individual. And willing to hold their gun in their cold dead hand to defend this philosophy.
So I am claiming (not proven) an observation of a fundamental difference between some millions of Americans as compared to what I think I know about Europe. But if any European wants to offer himself as a counter-example, I love to know of him. Rpietila maybe but every time I think he is really hard core individualist, I get some doubt because he seems sometimes to think in terms of good and evil authority. Whereas, I think all authority is evil. In a local community style collectivism, there really isn't any overriding authority. It is a complex balance of reputations and interworkings that humans have innately worked out over the centuries, and we are prewired to deal with this local defacto style politics where isn't any election and people of positive actions naturally gain more trust in the community. This is entirely different from structures where there is voting, power is granted, etc.. These are always subject to the iron law about power vacuums in that the most corrupt will always rise to control them because power can only be sustained with the most power.
My philosophy is power is inherently corrupting. But my prior posts yesterday were not about arguing my philosophy is correct, but rather arguing about the differences between Europe and America in terms of the number of people who share my philosophy. Europeans appear to believe in PLANNED social organization. Some millions of Americans seem to believe in UNPLANNED social organization.
It is basically a decentralized versus centralized philosophical difference.
I would point out you appear to be undervaluing the benefits of collectivism...
Humans are collectivist by nature. We have been hardwired this way by generations of natural selection...
Society as a whole is better off if its members choose cooperation over defection...
Collectivism is the evolved response to limit defection. The desire to pool some resources for the greater good, establish basic governance and the creation a social contract arises naturally in response to the need to combat defection and maximize cooperation and group survival. Merely pointing out the admittedly significant flaws in the modern form of scaled up collectivism is not a compelling argument for a return to pure anarchism.
I have noted on several occasions that you associate pure individualism and anarchism with a return to nature.
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However, you do not seem to accept that collectivism and a social contract are not only a part of nature but play a critical and natural role in limiting defection and maximizing cooperation in groups. A rejection of the social contract in particular leads to an acceptance of defection as natural and perhaps even leads to a glorification of violence and theft as natural and right as part of evolutional fitness. I have seen some signs of this line of thinking in your prior posts.
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Now it is certainly true that modern collectivism in conjunction with fiat economics appears to be vulnerable to many new types of defection. Abuse of the welfare and disability system is a form of defection...
I am going to write some profound statements which I never before wrote in this thread or else where with such clarity of focus.
What I believe is that the level of power vacuum we get due to collectivism is driven entirely by what is most economically efficient. The level of power vacuum we've seen since the Athenian empire has been driven by two facts:
1. Agricultural Age required aggregation of capital in the form of land and the State to protect the land.
2. Industrial Age required the aggregation of capital to fund the large fixed capital investment of the factory.
Humans are hard-wired for tribal structure which has nothing to do with granting a power vacuum to a collective but rather a naturally annealed set of complex social interactions that form spontaneously. Smooth had recently pointed out that there may be genetic differences and some people may be innately programmed to prefer a collectivist philosophy. Perhaps this was an evolutionary adaption given the reality of the two epochs I enumerated. Note when I arrived in the Philippines in the early 1990s, they didn't have abundant nails in most places, and still very much tribal structured at the local baragay level. So there may be genetic differences, which is why I alluded to that many Americans have native American ancestry and this could plausibly influence their genetics on this issue but I know of no statistical or scientific evidence thereof.
Humans have (at least culturally and environmentally, if not also genetically but surely not homogeneous genetics) adapted to the economic reality of where the power naturally ended up in the power-law distribution of wealth and the critical importance of aggregating capital in those prior two epochs enumerated above. Both the capitalists and labor needed to serve this power vacuum of the collective in order for the economic system of redistribution (from labor to the capitalists but while buying off labor with debt and welfare) to avoid continuous war and chaos that would have been less economic.
And now we enter the Knowledge Age which will decentralize nearly everything.
What you or I believe is irrelevant. Nature will determine what is. Nature has moved to a new paradigm called the Knowledge Age. It is Just Time (for the change in epochs).
I know which economic gravy train I am boarding. You CoinCube seem to be more European in your philosophy and thus should share their fate if I am correct about the economic fundamentals.
The best future for big government socialism appears to be Asia where there is a low of level of government as a share of GDP and the immigrant demographics are very favorable, so the socialism can grow with lots of social promises and debt causing temporal growth to be stimulated and the liabilities failure thereof will come some decades hence. Asia might trend or bifurcate into more decentralization, I am not yet sure. I am in Philippines which is historically is a tribal and decentralized country with very low taxation and government spending as a share of GDP. But this appears to be under intense pressure to trend towards a big government model. I believe the decentralists will reap the huge economic gains regardless where they are physically residing.
I have no desire to create enemies with my statements. I am merely trying to understand where society is now and where it is going. Whether I am wrong or correct about the future, we shall find out. I wish for a world that is meritorious without power vacuums (Coasian barriers to maximum fitness). We know from our up thread discussions that nature finds a balance between completely undamped chaos and some organizational structure. I believe the Knowledge Age is a radical shift to more decentralization of power.
Edit: interestingly we can see Europeans will prefer to focus on reforming the State and repeat their pattern of revolutions which do nothing to eliminate the power vacuum and just install a new head of the same monster paradigm:
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38109 (The Coming French Revolution of 2020?)
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38311 (Why We Are Doomed To Repeat History?)
Whereas Armstrong's model of the USA is it will break up into regions. I think this is because some Americans don't care what happens to the State or for reforming the State. They just want their individual place/peace:
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/16967
224 Year Collapsing Wave Structure Points to Breakup of USA
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There are two types of waves on the 224 Year Cycle the Collapsing Wave and the Protracted Wave. It appears that the USA is in the Collapsing Wave formation meaning that the 224 year runs from the birth to the peak with the total duration running minimum 296 years with the optimum being 309.6 years meaning the society splits and does not remain intact. A Protracted Wave is a society view where the wave is measured peak to peak totaling 224 years. The second Protracted Wave formation is where governments come and go, but society survives and reforms remaining intact. In the Collapsing Wave structure where it is 224 year from birth to peak, the overall duration appears to be is 296-309 years. for the conclusion whereby society breaks apart and fragmentation emerges..In the case of Rome, 309 years from the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44BC is 265AD where Rome broke apart and the Gallic Empire emerged under Postumus (259-268AD).
This Collapsing Wave structure that the United States appears to be in means it is a one-time-wonder and that the United States will break-up and the there will be no more united union. This is becoming self-evidence in the polarization of politics with tremendous differences in culture on a regional basis. The Obamacare is just one aspect revealing the undercurrent whereby one segment of society believes it has a right to force their views upon another group.
So unfortunately, the USA does not appear to be destined to remain intact otherwise we would have seen and overall structured wave of 224 years. We seem to be in the Collapsing Wave with the 224 years was from birth to peak with an overall duration of 309.6 years at best. This appears to be like the Collapsing Wave in Imperial Rome itself whereas from the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44BC to the peak in the glory of Rome and population in the city took place under Marcus Aurelius that was 224 years later in 180AD. The decline that followed brought total chaos, sovereign debt crisis, massive government seizure of capital, fragmentation of the Empire, and in the end, Rome was no longer the Capitol and that became Constantinople followed by the split of East and West. We are much more akin to the this type of Collapsing Wave formation whereby society collapses and breaks apart.
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/23356 (Will the USA Also Break-up Into Regions?)
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/17972MADMAX v Restructure
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So the collapse of the British Empire resulted in the collapse in purchasing power of the currency, the devaluation of debt, and the loss of territory. It was NOT a MADMAX event such as the fall of Rome. That takes placed when government attacks its citizens, hunts down capital as they are all starting to do now, and keep raising taxes PREVENTING economic growth. That is the substantial difference.
So what are we looking at with the fall of the American Empire? There should be a loss in unification (territory) just as we saw in Britain and the collapse of Russia or even that of Charlemagne. Look at the full history of Britain, you see the tribal Celtic pre-Roman Period, the collapse of Britain back into tribal states post-Rome, this is followed the Anglo-Saxson period of numerous states where we see kings of such places as Kings of Northumbria, Kings of Kent, Archbishops of Canterbury and at York, Kings of Mercia such as Offa who introduces the English Penny, Kings of East Anglia (Viking Coinages), Kings of Wessex, yet it was not until Alfred The Great (871-899) that we begin to see the unification of the island emerging as one nation being England and it took until 1707 to create the United Kingdom with Scotland joining.
The future course of the United States will follow the same pattern. Pre-Revolution, you had separate states. That became the UNITED states in 1789. We will see a breakup of the states most likely banding together in regions because of the difference in cultural views such as the Bible Belt. The fight over Obamacare illustrates the stark differences and this is fundamentally wrong for it is forcing one groups interests upon another. There is no such thing as equal rights but money is the exception. We are all treated the same even in law (no exception for politicians and bankers) or we are not a nation of equal rights. You cant be just a little be pregnant! The US will break up, but it should not go into a MADMAX event as long as we reach resistance from the people. If the people keep just watching their sports and never notice what the governments are doing to their future until it is too late, then it can go too far and that in the MADMAX event the ended the Roman Empire.
There is a danger of a MADMAX event because of the stubborn insistence upon Marxism and we have a crisis in philosophy that is even infecting Britain to this day. I may be the gadfly. Thankfully, I am not 23 and do not have to live my life under this kind of nasty government. If they want to execute me like Socrates, fine. I do share his view it is either the migration of the soul where I will see all my old friends or it will be a peaceful sleep from which I will never be disturbed again. So as he said go ahead. Do your best. The future that lies ahead I have no desire to participate in.
The above explains why Europe is much more likely to go into MADMAX again (Hitler) than the USA.I disagree with Armstrong's point in the following blog post, because although Europe has different cultures, it has a common ingrained commitment to the social contract and reforming the State instead of individualism. Europeans want to have a perfect society even if they have varying cultural practices and languages. So Europe will descend into megadeath again.
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/33872