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    Author Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Tenebrix, a CPU-friendly, GPU-hostile cryptocurrency  (Read 127361 times)

    • Lolcust (OP)
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    October 03, 2011, 08:02:21 PM
     #501
    Quote from: Bobnova on October 03, 2011, 07:58:35 PM
    Are you honestly supporting theft and botnets?


    I think I should use the "kawai wink" emoticon more often ^__~
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  • terrytibbs
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    October 03, 2011, 08:03:16 PM
     #502
    There's a Tenebrix Faucet up at http://tenebrixfaucet.sytes.net/ if you'd like one of them free ones.

  • Lolcust (OP)
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    October 03, 2011, 08:08:37 PM
     #503
    Okay, now time to arrange how shall we fuel this baby. Should I dump a million or two into it right away, or should I sequester the "faucet coins" into a different address and throw smaller chunks of coinage into the faucet when a need arises?

    One method removes a large chunk of coinage from my control irrevocably right away, the other seems safer in terms of "what if somethin bad happens to the faucet".

    What does community think ?

    P.S.:
    BTW, I hope it has only one address to send coins to, so that people have easier time watching me feed it ?

    EDIT

    PPS:
    Maybe i'm being extra-dim today, but it doesn't seem to nag for google account...
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  • bulanula
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    October 03, 2011, 08:10:08 PM
     #504
    If you really are going to make this laundry thing and not dump the coins then this is really going to go big. Even bigger than bitcoin i believe. Nefarious stuff is where the REAL dough is at $$$  Cool

  • terrytibbs
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    October 03, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
     #505
    Well, I'm going to be assuming the responsibility for a large amount of coins and would recommend you send it in sequences of 500TBX or less.

    I'll create a thread describing my to-do list for the faucet. There's a couple of important things left to do, mainly to do with transparency.

  • Lolcust (OP)
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    October 03, 2011, 08:15:32 PM
     #506
    Quote from: terrytibbs on October 03, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
    Well, I'm going to be assuming the responsibility for a large amount of coins and would recommend you send it in sequences of 500TBX or less.

    I'll create a thread describing my to-do list for the faucet. There's a couple of important things left to do, mainly to do with transparency.

    Okay, let's move the faucet discussion to a thread of its own.

    Quote from: bulanula on October 03, 2011, 08:10:08 PM
    If you really are going to make this laundry thing and not dump the coins then this is really going to go big. Even bigger than bitcoin i believe. Nefarious stuff is where the REAL dough is at $$$  Cool

    Dude, that is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y why I premined millyooonz instead of just private-mining a few thousands and dumping them in the deployment spree.

    Ability to have a one-time, absolutely non-repeatable "zomg roflhuge" generation run is worth so much more than just dumping consiz for the equivalent of measly 1000$ (if lucky). If I wanted to dump, I would have premined a sum that can actually be BOUGHT by the market.

    P.S.:
    Once again, I have no capacity to assess the legal status of TBX TBX Transaction Mixer users.
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  • bulanula
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    October 03, 2011, 08:19:42 PM
     #507
    Quote from: Lolcust on October 03, 2011, 08:15:32 PM
    Quote from: terrytibbs on October 03, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
    Well, I'm going to be assuming the responsibility for a large amount of coins and would recommend you send it in sequences of 500TBX or less.

    I'll create a thread describing my to-do list for the faucet. There's a couple of important things left to do, mainly to do with transparency.

    Okay, let's move the faucet discussion to a thread of its own.

    Quote from: bulanula on October 03, 2011, 08:10:08 PM
    If you really are going to make this laundry thing and not dump the coins then this is really going to go big. Even bigger than bitcoin i believe. Nefarious stuff is where the REAL dough is at $$$  Cool

    Dude, that is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y why I premined millyooonz instead of just private-mining a few thousands and dumping them in the deployment spree.

    Ability to have a one-time, absolutely non-repeatable "zomg roflhuge" generation run is worth so much more than just dumping consiz for the equivalent of measly 1000$ (if lucky). If I wanted to dump, I would have premined a sum that can actually be BOUGHT by the market.

    P.S.:
    Once again, I have no capacity to assess the legal status of TBX TBX Transaction Mixer users.

    Nice one mate. Save the legal disclaimer BS. In Ukraine there is no rulez  Grin In Soviet Russia you make the rulez  Roll Eyes Let the washing begin ASAP pls

  • terrytibbs
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    October 03, 2011, 08:21:47 PM
     #508
    Faucet discussion moved to https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/46722.

    Thank you.

  • tacotime
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    October 03, 2011, 10:47:46 PM
     #509
    The price of tenebrix and number of buy orders is going up exponentially on btc-e

    Long live tenebrix?

    edit: Difficulty just doubled, too.
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  • coblee
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    October 03, 2011, 10:56:11 PM
     #510
    Difficulty just increased to 0.09258932 at block 12096. A bit more than double the previous difficulty of 0.04195601.

    By my calculation, if you have 10 khash/s, it takes about 11 hours to find a block. You will make about 51.6 tbx per day. At the current exchange rate of 0.002 btc per tbx, that's about 0.10 btc or about $0.50. So basically about 5 cents a day for each khash/s. In terms of making money, it's probably not worth it to mine tenebrix anymore. Mind as well buy them on the exchange.
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  • tacotime
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    October 03, 2011, 11:09:00 PM
     #511
    Quote from: coblee on October 03, 2011, 10:56:11 PM
    In terms of making money, it's probably not worth it to mine tenebrix anymore. Mind as well buy them on the exchange.

    That is, unless someone buys all the tenebrix up for sale right now for about $300 USD and hoards them.  In the cash, the price would probably go up as the supply is constricted and it is no longer easy to obtain them.

    Actually, I would be surprised if someone doesn't do this as it is so cheap right now.
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  • coblee
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    October 03, 2011, 11:23:18 PM
     #512
    Quote from: tacotime on October 03, 2011, 11:09:00 PM
    Quote from: coblee on October 03, 2011, 10:56:11 PM
    In terms of making money, it's probably not worth it to mine tenebrix anymore. Mind as well buy them on the exchange.

    That is, unless someone buys all the tenebrix up for sale right now for about $300 USD and hoards them.  In the cash, the price would probably go up as the supply is constricted and it is no longer easy to obtain them.

    Actually, I would be surprised if someone doesn't do this as it is so cheap right now.

    I'm not saying tbx price won't go up. Just saying mining might not be worth the effort and electricity right now. My machine does 11 khash/s. So instead of mining for 0.11 btc each day, I mind ask just buy 0.11 btc worth of tbx on the exchange.... or more if I believe in the coin.
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  • bulanula
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    October 03, 2011, 11:49:16 PM
     #513
    How can people even think these TBX are worth anything at all etc.

    Chain can be 51% at any time wiping off all your coins.
    Exchange can be dumped at any time making price 0.

    Just makes me mind bonkers  Shocked Huh

    Enjoy the Tenebrix while you can.

  • ArtForz
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    October 04, 2011, 01:27:13 AM
     #514
    Quote from: Peter Lambert on October 04, 2011, 12:08:52 AM
    Quote from: bulanula on October 03, 2011, 11:49:16 PM
    How can people even think these TBX are worth anything at all etc.

    Chain can be 51% at any time wiping off all your coins.
    Exchange can be dumped at any time making price 0.

    How many typical cpu's would it take to get 51% of network right now?
    Back of the envelope based on last 100 blocks ... network is about 1900kH/s
    That's ~100 or so high end CPUs or somewhere around 2000 old/slow ones...
    = Still way too small to be more than a small speedbump for an attacker willing to shell out some $ for EC2 instances or with access to even a "tiny" botnet.

    The problem with a "typical" CPU ... no such thing.
    8-core Opteron or modern high-end Xeon > 20kHps, your average old P4 space heater ~ 1kHps... while using about the same amount of power.
    CPUs tend to follow Koomey's law (which roughly says power efficiency doubles every ~15 months).
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  • phelix
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    October 04, 2011, 06:59:31 AM
     #515
    What would be a healthy number of connections? Seem to only get 6-8. adding maxconnections=100 to the conf has no effect...

  • racerguy
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    October 04, 2011, 07:23:47 AM
     #516
    Quote from: phelix on October 04, 2011, 06:59:31 AM
    What would be a healthy number of connections? Seem to only get 6-8. adding maxconnections=100 to the conf has no effect...

    8 connections is fine, i'm running that no problem.  If you want more you have to forward the port from your router.

  • Lolcust (OP)
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    October 04, 2011, 07:31:35 AM
     #517
    Quote from: phelix on October 04, 2011, 06:59:31 AM
    What would be a healthy number of connections? Seem to only get 6-8. adding maxconnections=100 to the conf has no effect...

    I suspect you have your incoming port closed.

    With port open, TBX easily gets 16+ from where I sit.
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  • DeathAndTaxes
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    October 04, 2011, 05:13:18 PM
     #518
    Quote from: tacotime on October 03, 2011, 04:12:09 PM
    So as long as the algorithm requires a cache utilization of above 128kB, it will probably be pretty slow on ASICs or GPUs.  This is not an easily remedied problem because the only way to make this cache memory to physically add billions of more transistors onto the die for it.

    128kB = billions of transistors? So ~2000+ transistors to store a single bit (1 or 0)?

  • MoonShadow
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    October 04, 2011, 05:17:35 PM
     #519
    Whether or not an algo can be devised that is too large to fit in current hardware, it is likely to only be an impediment for a few years.  Bitcoin itself was CPU hardware for two years before a GPU client could be reasonablely developed.  No matter the complexity of the algo, there is no way to avoid the advantages of hardware excelleration for at least some portions of the algo.  Thus, there is no practical way to avoid the advantages that those who can bring a hardware excelleration solution to market will have over general purpose hardware.
    "The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

    - Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'

  • Lolcust (OP)
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    October 04, 2011, 05:28:26 PM
     #520
    1) PoW will be updated as hardware grows bigger...cache.

    2) The point is not to make implementation of hardware-accelerated solution impossible (You can implement TBX miner in OpenCL, ArtForz already tested it, see the "Tenebrix scaling questions" thread), but to make it uneconomical (If your wonderful hardware-cruncher costs 700$ and only marginally outperforms a cpu  which costs $100, you loose the race)

    Scrypt was specifically designed to be uneconomical and painful in GPU and FPGA and, amazingly, it really is
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