Hey Betcoin,

Thought I should let you know that when you ban a players IP and disable their account, they're still able to log in with the poker client, access funds in their poker balance, register and play tournaments etc...They just cant access the website.

Any explanation by the way on the sudden change from


to


Remember, best not to reply at all than to reply with a lie (like last time)

This was fixed 5 hours ago:  https://www.betcoin.ag/comment/44937#comment-44937

When you first tried there was an error but that error has been fixed.  Thank you for the update!

Yes, fun tourney....I took a bad beat but I did manage to collect one of the bounties so positive ROI on the day so far!  Now I need to concentrate on qualifying for the Daily Coin.  Best valued tournament on the site!!!  And it plays every day!  Just can't lose here!  SMILE

Can you explain how the poker rakeback and status points works please?

Usually I get both of them paid overnight, but last night I got neither.

Yesterday I only played one session, and I qualified for the table-starter bonus on it.

I got paid the bonus about an hour after ending that session, but didn't get any status points at all.

Here's a screenshot of my 'events':



You see 6:36am 2 nights ago I got rakeback + status for my previous day's play, but there's nothing around 6am last night.

Is this a bug? Or do we not get status points if we are getting the table-starter bonus? I was expecting that the "immediate" bonus was 100% rakeback, and overnight I'd get the extra 10% rakeback plus status that I usually get, but that didn't happen.

I'd appreciate an explanation of what happened. Thanks.

Edit: SMG wanted me to confirm that I am the same 'dooglus' as on betcoin.ag. I am.

Thanks for your reply.


Right, and I am not. My status points this morning are exactly the same as they were last night. I got nothing from the overnight run. Nothing shows up in "events" around 6am (like it does every other day at around 6am) and my status point count didn't change.

I took a copy of my status last night, and again this morning:


As you can see, they are identical.


Live chat support has previously told me that they can't look at user accounts, and that I should make a ticket. But tickets never get looked at, and posts on betcoin's own forum get deleted, so I guess this is the best place. At least here the post will be seen and not deleted.

@Dooglus

I said I wasn't going to speculate, but looking closer at this:

My guess is that your account hasn't updated your points yet for the most recent period. Maybe wait and check again after 14 hours or so from that last time stamp.

*Addendum: why not just try live chat, what have you got to lose. I'd be willing to bet they'd be able to clear this up within a few minutes of connecting with an agent.

The way Betcoin dealt with my missing rakeback and status points was the hair that broke the camels back for me.

I opened the ticket on Sept 1st, but had a feeling I wasn't receiving the the full vip rewards for several weeks.  It's just one of those things that's too easy to put off till tomorrow...

A few days later I got first response, informing me that there were no issues and I was getting paid appropriately.


Betcoin William
[/color]

After a few more sessions and confirming I was definitely missing a big chunk of both Status Points and Rake-back Andrew responded assuring me again that everything was right.

Betcoin Andrew
[/color]

When Andrew said "ticket do not count towards it" I had to assume he meant if you won a sattellite into a tournament you wouldn't receive any benefits based on the target tournaments entry fee.  Even though you won the value of the entry + fee. 

"We have many players that play regularly now and if it wasn't accurate, you would hear from them all"

- I heard from them all the time, and so does he.
- I know at least a few of them complained in the past and were compensated whatever they thought they were missing at the time.  I had already made it clear that I didn't want some ammount of bitcoin they pulled out of the air. I wanted what I was promised, and I wanted them to give everyone else what they promised - even the guys that didn't complain.  I also wanted them to fix it so we wouldn't have to do this all over again.


I think that Betcoin thought they might be doing something wrong - but weren't sure - so they just hid from me until they figured out what their next move was.

In the mean time I stopped playing at betcoin almost completely.




Sunday October 11th I decided to use betcoin as my WPN skin for the day and prepared to buyin directly to every tournament prior to playing any sattys.
(Sundays are the by far the biggest day for online mtts, I usually 9-12 table across 3 different sites and and my average buyin is almost 4x bigger than the rest of week average, 35-45% of the tournaments I reg on a sunday are satellites)

During that session I played the following tournaments on Betcoin, all of which I registered directly entered/re-entered:  $500+40, $135+5(x3),$80+8, $40+4, $30+3, $20+2 and $10+1 (x4)

That's a total of $76 in fees which converted to ~ 306 chips at the time (1 chip = 1 mbtc)

According to their terms - I should receive 1,530 Status points

My VIP level is Silver 1 so I am entitled to 26.6% rake back = 81.3 chips which should be given in the form of around 5,300 betcoin points.

I ended up receiving less than 2000 betoin points over the next two mornings.

I was also shorted by a similar margin with the status points - I don't have the proof for the total status points I received during that period because they have since disabled my account.




October 13th Betcoin decided to clarify the whole "rakeback from tournaments you were registered for through satty" policy:


[/color]

I doubt they even knew this was how their system had been working this way all along until they realized they they would have to deal with me some way other than simply ignoring me.

I still think this is a really stupid policy - but I'm going to stop myself from dwelling on how illogical it is to have such a policy without an apologetic explanation involving technical issues.


I immediately let them know that this only answered for SOME of the rake back I thought I was owed - not ALL.

I provided screen shots, I bumped ticket, I asked them about it in chat, private chat, I made threads...

Since mid October they have treated me the same way you see them treating me here in this thread - other than an occasional passive aggressive insult, they refuse to acknowledge my existence or anything I say. 

My shark scope showing the non satellite tournaments I played which were completed on 10/11

http://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/WPN/players/twitchyseal


Rakeback received early morning 10/12



Deleted thread Betcoin deleted from their forums (mostly regs discussing the fact that rake back is wrong every time they independently check it, but even when faced with math Betcoin won't budge from their "rakeback is right, you are wrong" stance):

http://snag.gy/q0PmI.jpg






After blantantly ignoring me for nearly two weeks, Andrew offers the following:



Obviously I got ignored after bumping ticket.




Just want to remind anyone who made it this far-  I didn't make this post just to prove I got screwed out of some rake back (although I wouldn't blame you for assuming so).  I made it because I want everyone to look at the way Betcoin handled this issue and compare it to some of the other issues I've brought up; like the BBJP issue, the No Collusion Freeroll  - how they handle cheaters in general, even how they have behaved in this very thread....if a casino as dishonest and  non-transparent (opaq?) as Betcoin is able to grow and succeed long term - it will lower the standards of future businesses within the industry.  Unregulated doesn't mean unaccountable. 

I'd be happy to discuss anything I've posted in any way shape or form.  It's tough trying to say everything I want to but avoid wall of text boringness that nobody will do more than glance at...

I've been trying to keep up with all that you've been trying to point out.  Some of it is very complicated, some of it can be contributed to the sites "growing pains," and some of it is probably just frustration.  This is what I know: when I satellite into WPN tournaments on the MAIN network skins, I do get a rakeback--even if I satellite into them via freerolls. However, here's the problem: the Winning Poker Network has a very complicated structure within in it's own network.  On their main skins, their fees are distributed differently...they spend quite a bit of their revenue sponsoring their big tournaments and promoting the network.  This is where it gets complicated: Betcoin is in the WPN hierarchy in a very different manner than the main skins.  Betcoin's players have the advantage of playing in the Winning Poker Networks pool of players, but the fees generated from those tournaments are controlled by the WPN for allowing us access to play in their pool.  So, the distribution of fees and the way they are calculated and distributed in terms of rakeback gets convoluted.  Each new skin in the WPN negotiates its own contract, sorta speak, so there's a very confusing hierarchy among the several skins. 

I understand your frustration completely....rakeback is a big concern to any serious player in regards to calculating their ROI and managing their bankroll.  However, having the advantage of playing in a player pool which is consistently dropping huge overlays in their tournaments is worth that confusion when calculating the value of your buy ins.  It's a trade off....see.  When we pay $540 to get into a tournament that has a $200,000 overlay, we are getting an extreme bargain!

Anyway, Betcoin is very generous with the funds they receive from the fees generated from their own player pool.  Just do some quick calculations and consider the overlay that's dropped daily in Betcoin's exclusive tournaments....that's value!

Yes, you have some very valid and serious concerns.  I just think that you're not considering the complicated relationships that exists between the several different skins and the network.  The aspect that makes Betcoin unique among all the skins is that it has two distinct pools of players (advantageous to us) which complicates matters in many ways and some answers are too complicated to state simply.   Think about that some....

TIP: When you're deciding what network skin to play which specific tournament....take into account the
       complications mentioned above and play on the skin that will give you the best value.

I waited. Nothing was added to my status points last night either. The points are simply not paid.


I wasn't trying them because they have told me before that they can't look at accounts and are not really support. They're more like a babysitting service.

But since you bet me, I decided to give it a try:



How much were we betting?