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Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] (Read 132070 times)

dogie (OP)

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[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

February 09, 2014, 01:23:24 PM
Last edit: February 01, 2016, 03:25:16 PM by dogie

Merited by Lutpin (13)

Dogie's Miner Setup Guides:

	ASICMiner Blade ASICMiner Cube ASICMiner Tube ASICMiner Prisma Avalon Avalon2 Avalon Avalon3 Avalon Avalon4 Avalon Avalon6 SpondooliesTech SP10 SpondooliesTech SP20 SpondooliesTech SP30 SpondooliesTech SP35 Technobit HEX16B Technobit HEX8A1 Technobit HEX4M Technobit 2HEX4M KNCMiner Saturn/Jupiter	Bitmain AntMiner S1 Bitmain AntMiner S2 Bitmain AntMiner S3 Bitmain AntMiner S4 Bitmain AntMiner S4+ Bitmain AntMiner S5 Bitmain AntMiner S7 Bitmain AntMiner C1 Bitmain AntMiner U3 RockMiner R-Box RockMiner New R-Box RockMiner R3-Box RockMiner T1 HashCoins Apollo HashCoins Ares NonceTech Sampo Yiazo YBF	BTCGarden AMV1 Bitmine Coincraft Desk V2 HashRatio Tsunami XBTech Pacific 1250 BitCrane T-110 Black Arrow Prospero X1 AMT 1.25TH C-Scape HexFury USB C-Scape BiFury USB MoonlightMiner NanoFury II USB Gigampz PSU breakout board Guide meta thread DefaultTrust Visualisation Power Supply analysis guide Manufacturer trustworthiness guide
	_________________________________________	_________________________________________	_________________________________________

Intro
I get a lot of questions regarding the legitimacy of current companies in the marketplace. Its not always viable for customers to search through 1000 pages of drama and so I've assembled the below summary of current market suppliers. Remember, this information is my personal interpretation of past performance and it is NOT an absolute indicator of what will happen to your order. Supplement this guide with your own research, protect your money.

Rating System
Position in the list signifies trustworthiness, the higher the better. A perfect score is 100 and the worst possible score is 10. Criteria includes the use of preorders, prompt delivery, the investment of custom chips, hardware and refund issues, communication ability, ethical behaviour and company size.
   90+ = AAA tier firm
   80+ = A tier firm
   70+ = B tier firm, company can improve practises
   50+ = C tier firm, issues to be resolved
   30+ = D tier firm, significant issues or problems
   30- = E tier firm

Ratings

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Bitmain	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Antminer S1, S2, S3, S4, U1, U2, U3, C1, L1

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 94	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Batch	10/10 10/10 16/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Great F Huge	10/10 8/10 10/10

Last Score: 94	Primarily sells in hand hardware, issues are fairly resolved when they occur.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Canaan Creative	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Chips, Avalon1, Avalon2, Avalon3, Avalon4

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 92	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes No	10/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Good F Large	7/10 8/10 7/10

Last Score: 92	Only sells in hand hardware and has done for two years. Not to be confused with BitSyncom or Yifu.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Bitfury	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Chips, 3500BF, H-boards

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 88	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Batch	10/10 10/10 16/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F Huge	4/10 8/10 10/10

Last Score: 92	First ASIC company to deliver in quantity and without problems. More focused on their own farms however have pledged to sell to OEMs.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
KNC Miner	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Saturn, Jupiter, Neptune, Titan

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 62	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Mix	10/10 10/10 8/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Mix Minor Some	5/10 6/10 5/10	Communication Ethics Size	Good F O L Huge	7/10 1/10 10/10

Last Score: 46	Huge company that sold several rounds of their first generation miners, and used the proceeds to build a private super farm. Then sold further preorders and potentially mislead about shipping dates. Problems with latest generation.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
SpondooliesTech	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Chips, SP10, SP20, SP30, SP31, SP35

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 59	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Yes	10/10 10/10 1/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes Minor No	10/10 6/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F O L Large	4/10 1/10 7/10

Last Score: 88	Sold preorders quite far into the future, specification problems with both 2X and 3X miners. Agreed to merge with the unusual company "BTCS Inc".
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
HashCoins	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Apollo, Zeus, Uranus, Ares

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 40	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes Yes	1/10 10/10 1/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Mix No Some	5/10 10/10 5/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F O Small	4/10 3/10 1/10

Last Score: 55	Integrator of HashFast and other chips. Offered preorders for two products which did not materialise.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Technobit	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread S-Hash, HEX4M, HEX8A1, HEX8A2, HEX16A2, HEX16B, HEX16E, 4HEX16E

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 35	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes Mix	1/10 10/10 8/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Minor Yes	1/10 6/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F O Small	4/10 3/10 1/10

Last Score: 46	Designs and sells boards integrating 3rd party chips on the market. A number of problems with batches, orders and refunds.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

dogie (OP)

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

July 27, 2014, 03:36:46 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2016, 03:25:50 PM by dogie

Retired Companies
These are companies that either no longer exist, do not trade or do not offer products for sale. It is highly advisable not to trade with any company listed below as it is likely to
be an imitation scam.

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
BitCrane	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread T-110, T-110S, T-720

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 79	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes No	1/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay Medium	4/10 10/10 4/10

Last Score: 79	Sold in hand hardware based off HashFast's chips.
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___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Yiazo	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread YBF

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 76	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes No	1/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay Small	4/10 10/10 1/10

Last Score: 76	Small OEM utilising Bitfury's generation 2 chips and reference design for one run.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
ASICMiner	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Chips, Block Erupter USBs, V1/V2 Blades, V3 Cubes, Tubes, Primsa

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 73	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Batch	10/10 10/10 16/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Mix No No	5/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad F B Huge	1/10 1/10 10/10

Last Score: 80	Was a publicly floated company that sold in hand hardware while maintaining their own farms. The founder and CEO, 'Friedcat', alledgedly ran away with most of the company's money.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
BTCGarden	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread AMV1, AMV1-X2

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 73	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes No	1/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes Minor No	10/10 6/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F Medium	4/10 8/10 4/10

Last Score: 73	Integrator of ASICMiner's chips. Some problems with DOA rates and communication.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
XBTech	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Pacific 1250, Pacific V2

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 72	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes No	1/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes No No	10/10 10/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F L Medium	4/10 3/10 4/10

Last Score: 77	Medium integrator of ASICMiner's chips, only sold in hand hardware.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
RockMiner	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread R-BOX, New R-BOX, R3-BOX, R4-BOX

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 63	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes No	1/10 10/10 20/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	Yes Minor No	10/10 6/10 10/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad F B Medium	1/10 1/10 4/10

Last Score: 70	Large integrator of ASICMiner's chips. Significant quantity sold. Transitioned to being a supporting arm of ASICMiner, before also falling victim to 'Friedcat'.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
BFL	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Jalapeno, Single, Monarch

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 49	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Mix	10/10 10/10 8/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No No Yes	1/10 10/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad GOV L Large	1/10 1/10 7/10

Last Score: 49	Product releases have been subject to significant delays, and the company was investigated by the FTC. Insolvent.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
BitMine	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Chips, Rig, Desk

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 48	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Mix	10/10 10/10 8/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Minor Yes	1/10 6/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Okay F L B Large	4/10 1/10 7/10

Last Score: 50	First generation was very delayed, sold in hand hardware for a bit. Ended up in a bitter bankruptcy and legal case.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
CoinTerra	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Terraminer IV

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 37	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Yes	10/10 10/10 1/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Major Some	1/10 1/10 5/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad F O L Large	1/10 1/10 7/10

Last Score: 37	Promised performance aggressively and it didn't pay off. Had problems with units under performing, being delayed and other problems. Suffered cashflow problems and stopped honouring refunds for a while, leading to a class action lawsuit.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
HashFast	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Sierra, Babyjet

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 35	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Yes Yes	10/10 10/10 1/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Minor Yes	1/10 6/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad B L Medium	1/10 1/10 4/10

Last Score: 35	Sold preorders, things went sour and they're in receivership.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
AMT	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread AMT520, AMT1.2Th

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 28	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	No Yes Mix	1/10 10/10 8/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Major Yes	1/10 1/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad O L B Medium	1/10 1/10 4/10

Last Score: 32	First generation significantly delayed, although may be due to a third party. Products were recalled and only some refunds processed. Bitter legal case to track down the owner.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _
Black Arrow	Product lines: Company Site \| Bitcointalk Thread Minion chips, Prospero X1, Prospero X3

___________________________________________________________________________
Rating: 28	Uses own chips? Delivered miners? Uses preorders?	Yes Few Yes	10/10 5/10 1/20	On time? Quality Issues? Refund Issues?	No Major Yes	1/10 1/10 1/10	Communication Ethics Size	Bad O L Large	1/10 1/10 7/10

Last Score: 28	Historically reputable, however latest generations that were sold on preorders were extremely delayed. Refunds were not being honoured.
___________________________________________________________________________	_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ _

Individual Criteria

Own Chips?
Companies manufacturing their own chips prospect significant time, resources and funds up front. They have likely raised significant capital from investors who will have performed
due diligence on information that is not available to the public. All of these factors reduce the chances of customers being left without of their orders.

   10/10 = Yes - designing and investing in own chips
   8/10 = Mixed - utilises a mix of own and other companies' chips
   5/10 = Promised - designing and investing in own chips but not yet delivered
   1/10 = No - integrates other companies chips

Delivered Yet?
This criterion represents a company's successful delivery of a new generation, product or offering.

   10/10 = Yes
   5/10 = Few units only
   1/10 = No

Preorders?
Preorders are extremely bad for the industry and put all the financial risk on the buyer. This criterion does not act as a snapshot, but a longer term (both past and future) "does
this company engage in preorders". A company who's business model relies on preorders to fund development and new generations is still considered to utilise preorders even if
they intermediately sell some products from stock. Transitional scores may be used when companies have promised the exclusion of preorders but have yet to prove their business
model can operate without them.

   20/20 = No - does not use preorders
   16/20 = Batch - 'Presells' a batch being manufactured for delivery in the immediate future
   8/20 = Mixed - sells some in hand hardware and some preorders, or utilises split payments
   1/20 = Yes - only sells using preorders


On Time?
This criterion highlights if the majority of a company's products have been or have nearly been delivered in a timely fashion. Allowances may be made if companies sufficiently
compensate customers for delays.

   10/10 = Yes
   5/10 = Mix
   1/10 = No


Hardware Issues?
This criterion seeks to highlight if a company's products often suffer from defects which reduce a customers income or the value of their products. Allowances may be made if
companies sufficiently compensate customers for delays.

   10/10 = No
   6/10 = Minor - some issues with performance, reliability or software
   4/10 = N/A - for companies that have not yet delivered hardware.
   1/10 = Major - significant issues that severely impact the performance or reliability of the miners


Refund Issues?
This criterion represents how well a company responds to requests to cancel orders and refund payments. This rating is used sensitively and as such only a small number of
confirmed customers is needed to result in lower scores. "No refunds" policies are not considered a defence in regards to this criterion.

   10/10 = No - refunds issued as requested
   5/10 = Some - some orders being ignored or refunds delayed but processing
   1/10 = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics.


Communication?

   10/10 = Great - senior management actively engages with customers
   7/10 = Good - customer service staff contactable as required
   4/10 = Okay - some issues or lack of communication with customers
   1/10 = Bad - significant issues with communication


Ethics?
All companies start with 10 points, and lose points for various infractions. The key is as follows:

   F = Operates own mining farm = -2
   FF = Operates own large mining farm = -4
   P = Evidence of premining on preordered equipment = -2
   GOV = Has been a subject of government or regulatory intervention investigation = -9
   B = Bankrupt = -9
   L = Legal action taken against company = -5
   O = Other generic unethical behaviour = -5


Company Size?
This criterion seeks to represent a company's size and market-share in the industry. Larger companies are less likely to disappear overnight where as smaller, newer companies
maybe be more likely to do so. Smaller companies may also be harder to legally persue to receive refunds.

   10/10 = Huge
   7/10 = Large
   4/10 = Medium
   1/10 = Small

dogie (OP)

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

July 27, 2014, 03:36:55 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2016, 03:12:47 PM by dogie

Changelog 02/01/2016

Retired permanently inactive companies who have either gone out of business or have no prospects of selling miners again.

With the removal of the smaller companies, the company sizes scoring criteria have been rescaled.

Company changes:

Retired Bitcrane, Yiazo, ASICMiner, BTCGArden, XBTech, RockMiner, BFL, BitMine, CoinTerra, HashFast, AMT and Black Arrow. These companies are unlikely to be updated.
Bitfury 'Preorders' down from 'No' to 'Batch' (20 to 16).
KNC Miner 'Preorders' up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8 ).
KNC Miner 'OnTime' up from 'No' to 'Mix' (1 to 5).
KNC Miner 'Hardware Issues' up from 'Major' to 'Minor' (1 to 4).
SpondooliesTech 'Preorders' down from 'Mix' to 'Yes' (8 to 1).
SpondooliesTech 'Hardware Issues' down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6).
Spondoolies-Tech 'Communication' down from 'Great' to 'Okay' (10 to 4).
SpondooliesTech 'Size' down from 'Huge' to 'Large' (10 to 7).
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against SpondooliesTech.
Added 'Farm' ethics infringement against SpondooliesTech.
Added 'Other' ethics infringement against SpondooliesTech.
HashCoins 'Preorders' down from 'Mix' to 'Yes' (8 to 1).
HashCoins 'Size' down from 'Medium' to 'Small' (4 to 1).
Added 'Other' ethics infringement against HashCoins.
Technobit 'Size' down from 'Medium' to 'Small' (4 to 1).
Technobit 'Preorders' down from 'Batch' to 'Mix' (16 to 8 ).
Added 'Bankrupt' ethics infringement against ASICMiner.
Added 'Bankrupt' ethics infringement against BitMine.
Added 'Bankrupt' ethics infringement against RockMiner.
Added 'Bankrupt' ethics infringement against AMT.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against XBTech.

Changelog 02/26/2015

Retired permanently inactive companies who have either gone out of business or have no prospects of selling miners again.

Clarified that combined ethics ratings can not fall below 1.
Retired 'Premine' ethics criterion due to being subjective and reports often based on inconclusive evidence.
Added Legal ethics criterion with a penalty of -5.
Added color to changelog.

Company changes:

VMC retired due to prolonged bankruptcy.
Lightning ASIC retired due to withdrawal from market to sell ATMs.
OneStringMiner retired due to single product/run company.
Awaiting submissions of evidence of legal action against XBTech.
Awaiting submissions of evidence of legal action against Technobit.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against Black Arrow.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against AMT.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against HashFast (already at minimum score).
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against CoinTerra.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against KNC Miner.
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against BFL (already at minimum score).
Added 'Legal' ethics infringement against BitMine.
Removed 'Other' ethics infringement against BTCGarden
Added 'Farm' ethics infringement against BTCGarden.
Technobit 'On Time' down from 'Yes' to 'No' (10 to 1).
Technobit 'Hardware Issues' clarified that issues with actual hardware are minor, with the major of problem being lack of timely support which is penalised in other categories.
Technobit 'Refund Issues' down from 'No' to 'Yes' (10 to 1).
Technobit 'Communication' down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
Added 'Farm' ethics infringement against Technobit.
Added 'Other' ethics infringement against Technobit.
Bitcrane size up from 'Small' to 'Medium' (1 to 4).
RockMiner 'Hardware Issues' down to 'Minor' from 'No' (10 to 6) due to lack of technical support.
RockMiner 'Size' down from 'Large' to 'Medium' (7 to 4).
Bitmain Preorders up from 'Mix' to 'Batch' (8 to 16).
BFL being considered for Communication up from 'Bad' to 'Okay' (1 to 4).
No change in BFL 'Preorders' due to no new generation launched. Remains at transition score.
No change in SpondooliesTech 'Preorders' due to no new generation launched. Remains at transition score.
ASICMiner 'On Time' will next be considered on new generation launch.

Changelog 12/17/2014

Ethics criterion 'BFL' changed from 'BFL' to Gov to represent behaviour so serious that government regulatory intervention is required. This does NOT mean that the previous 'BFL' rating - a mark of extreme market behaviours - wasn't proper and correct.

Communication ratings have been normalised lower than previously.

Company changes:

Canaan Creative Communication up from 'Okay' to 'Good' (4 to 7).
SpondooliesTech Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although SpondooliesTech is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
Bitmain Hardware Issues up from 'Minor' to 'No' (6 to 10).
ASICMiner Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).
ASICMiner OnTime down from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (10 to 5).
ASICMiner Hardware Issues? Down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6). *Prisma suffered 'major' problems, but the company is offering more than fair buyback terms so customers are not out of pocket.
OneStringMiner Communication down from 'Great' to 'Good' (10 to 7). *Was an error, already had the score of 'Good' but had the text of 'Great'.
RockMiner Size down from 'Large' to 'Medium' (7 to 4).
RockMiner Communication down from 'Good' to 'Bad' (7 to 1).
XBTec Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
Yiazo Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
BTCGarden Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
HashCoins added.
BFL Ethics changed from 'BFL' to 'Gov' (1 to 1).
BFL Delivered Yet? Changed from 'Few' to 'Yes' (5 to 10). *Due to the large numbers that Monarchs are could be if it wasn't for temporary receivership delivered in.
BFL Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although BFL is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
BFL Communication. *Clarification that the low rating is due to the regression to their own heavily moderated forums and to a lack of official participation in these forums - amongst other things. Additionally, the professionalism of interactions of staff on these forums is below the expected standard.
KNCMiner Hardware Issues. *Clarification, that the low rating is due to the potentially dangerous use of high power draw far exceeding the PCI-E specification.
KNCMiner Refund Issues up from 'Yes' to 'Some' (1 to 5).
BlackArrow Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).

Changelog 10/20/2014
Company changes:

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.
ASICMiner communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
Bitmain Hardware Issues down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6).
Bitmain Commuication up from 'Good' to 'Great' (7 to 10).
XBTech On Time not changed, but receives a warning for original Pacific 1250 delays.
RockMiner Hardware Issues up from 'Minor' to 'No' (6 to 10).
SpondooliesTech Size up from 'Large' to 'Huge' (7 to 10).
BTCGarden Hardware issues clarified that its due to the % of DOA boards.
BTCGarden Communcation up from 'Okay' to 'Good' (4 to 7).
Bitmine Communaction down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
KNC Miner Hardware Issues down from 'Minor' to 'Major' (6 to 1) - suffered minor to moderate problems on both product launches.
KNC Miner Ethics, F up from FF (-4 to -2) - removed FF criteria from rating system due to being potentially speculative.
CoinTerra refund issues from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 5).
Blackarrow Hardware Issues down to Major due to X3 total recall.
AMT Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).
BFL Hardware Issues up from 'Minor' to 'No' (6 to 10).
BitCrane added (76).
Bitcrane size being considered for Medium if newer offerings sell better.
Bitcrane communication being considered for Good, again on the basis that newer offerings sell better and there is more engagement.
Canaan Creative Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
Bitmine Refund Issues down from 'Some' to 'Yes' (5 to 1).

Changelog 09/12/2014
Company changes:

Canaan Creative added (92).
XBTech Added (80).
Lightning ASIC 'Own Chips' changed from 'No' to 'Promised' (1 to 5). Overall score from 54 to 58.
BFL 'Own Chips' changed from 'Promised' to 'Yes' (5 to 10).
BFL 'Delivered Yet?' changed from 'No' to 'Few' (1 to 5). Overall score from 24 to 33.
~~BlackArrow 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'Major' to 'Minor' (1 to 6). Overall score from 35 to 40.~~
Bitmine 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 63 to 59.
Technobit 'Hardware Issues?' changed from 'No' to 'Some' (10 to 6). Overall score from 78 to 74.
SpondooliesTech 'Preorders?' changed from 'Mix' to 'Yes' (8 to 1). Overall score from 85 to 78.
Bitmain 'Preorders?' changed from 'Batch' to 'Mix' (16 to 8 ). Overall score from 93 to 83.

dogie (OP)

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

July 27, 2014, 03:37:05 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2016, 03:12:00 PM by dogie

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

July 27, 2014, 03:37:13 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2016, 03:31:50 PM by dogie

Disclaimers
I provided technical support for 2 companies - Bitmain and Canaan Creative. Neither of these contracts had any influence over company ratings.

Quote from: dogie on September 30, 2014, 07:48:28 PM

Hello all,

Bitmain has employed me to help liaise with the community and later provide technical support. They have done this in order to help provide:

1) timely technical support
2) provide better feedback (if I don't know, I can find out from the people within Bitmain who will)
3) provide product and sales input from you guys directly into the company. If something is going wrong, YOU can fix it
4) provide native English press releases - less ManderEnglish, more sense.

This is a paid position, however it will in no way affect my independence or freedom in being critical towards Bitmain outside of this thread. My contract specifically stipulates:

Quote

Dogie will speak on behalf of BITMAIN and will not criticize BITMAIN in these threads. Dogie still reserves the right to criticize BITMAIN in his other threads. Both parties acknowledge that this relationship has no impact whatsoever on BITMAINs rating or standing in Dogies Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

This means I won't sit here and reply to every post saying Bitmain is a scam, don't buy from Bitmain etc etc, in this thread. It does NOT prohibit me from saying that in my own threads, if that is what I believe. It also has absolutely no impact on their rating in the Manufacturer trustworthiness thread [in which Bitmain just went down 10 points].

Quote from: dogie on October 31, 2014, 10:27:45 AM

Hello all,

Canaan Creative has employed me to help liaise with the community and later provide technical support. They have done this in order to help provide:

1) timely technical support
2) provide better feedback (if I don't know, I can find out from the people within CC who will)
3) provide product and sales input from you guys directly into the company. If something is going wrong, YOU can fix it
4) provide native English press releases.

This is a paid position, however it will in no way affect my independence or freedom in being critical towards Canaan Creative outside of this thread. My contract specifically stipulates:

Quote

Dogie will speak on behalf of Canaan Creative and will not criticize CC in these threads. Dogie still reserves the right to criticize CC in his other threads. Both parties acknowledge that this relationship has no impact whatsoever on CCs rating or standing in Dogies Manufacturer Trustworthiness thread.

This means I won't sit here and reply to every post saying CC is a scam, don't buy from CC etc etc, in this thread. It does NOT prohibit me from saying that in my own threads, if that is what I believe. It also has absolutely no impact on their rating in the Manufacturer trustworthiness thread.

I am currently engaged in legal action against SpondooliesTech for unpaid debts.

Quote from: dogie on January 27, 2016, 04:36:33 PM

We filed at the Kiryat Gat Miagistrates Court on the 11th Jan, served ... by registered mail on 18th Jan. They've yet to file a response. The case is open to the public which means anyone can request documents from it, and although there isn't a public case docket I can post the documents on here and give a rough translation from Hebrew.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 01:30:40 PM

Nicely done... and needed...

Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 02:38:33 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on February 09, 2014, 01:30:40 PM

Nicely done... and needed...

Thanks. If it becomes useful enough it might as well be a sticky. Would save us repeating ourselves about warnings.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 02:40:15 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 03:01:50 PM by alfabitcoin

Bitmine has asic, legitimate should be set to yes as they have delivered avalon clones.they also have protection plan in place.
Black Arrow dont have asic, but delivered fpga and asic miners based on bitfury( legitimate should be set to: yet to be seen), do not understand how they can be more reputitable then bitmine?

Edit
Other then that, great guide!
Btw where is knc?

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 03:09:03 PM

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 02:40:15 PM

Its about the current generation. Its not about being a scam, its the overall feeling about their CURRENT products which are delayed and yet to be delivered. Using your proposed logic we'd have to call BFL reputable because they delivered FPGAs.

The reason black arrow is 'yes' and bitmine isn't is because there are reports that bitmine is refusing to refund. Sound familiar? Forgot to copy in KNC, I'll do it now.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 03:36:31 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 04:26:04 PM by alfabitcoin

#10

Quote from: dogie on February 09, 2014, 03:09:03 PM

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 02:40:15 PM

Thanks for explanation, however black arrow also does not refund nor buyer has a right to request it. I do not know bitmine tos, so they might have same tos regarding refund request as black arrow. Sorry, i disagree on legitimacy question regarding those to company. Black arrow did not even taped out yet so how can they be more legitimate ghen bitmine?
Also you defended your reasoning of black arrow trustwothy status delivering in the past, so i reminded you of bitmine doing the same with avalon clones.

Edit
Acording to bitmine tos buyer can requst an refund with 10% on top after 61 days delay.Further, they add hasing power on each 10 days of delivery delay. What option or protection plan black arrow has?
You can not judge whole company legitimacy by refund reqest, what are handled acording to tos and case by case where you do not have all relevant information.
You have delivered set to yes for black arrow! They delivered lancelots and miners based on bitfury chips, so bitmine deserve the same "yes" as they have delivered avalon clones. However, they both should have delivered set to "no" as they have not delivered miner based on theirown asic chips. Again exception, bitmine delivered a1 asic designed by them to diy community.
Finally, they both should have the same legitimacy status e.g. to be proven with exception that bitmine has a1 asic chip manufactured what mean a lot.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 04:48:42 PM

#11

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 03:36:31 PM

Quote from: dogie on February 09, 2014, 03:09:03 PM

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 02:40:15 PM

They can request a refund, but they're not honoring it - hence they receive a demotion in rank. Black Arrow IS actively providing refunds. TOS are irrelevant.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 09, 2014, 04:59:55 PM
Last edit: February 09, 2014, 05:22:54 PM by alfabitcoin

#12

Quote from: dogie on February 09, 2014, 04:48:42 PM

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 03:36:31 PM

Quote from: dogie on February 09, 2014, 03:09:03 PM

Quote from: alfabitcoin on February 09, 2014, 02:40:15 PM

They can request a refund, but they're not honoring it - hence they receive a demotion in rank. Black Arrow IS actively providing refunds. TOS are irrelevant.

Have you been on black arrow thread lately? Have you seen refund request without response? Where you have read that they honor refunds? They do not refund anybody at this time, that could change but that does not change a facts.
Can you point on refund complaints where bitmine denie refunds. Plese exclude trolls and newaccounts.

Look here, black arrow mat does not even know will they allow refund let alone that tbey refund everybody who ask it!!
https://bt.irlbtc.com/view/294197.msg5020564;topicseen#msg5020564

And tos does matter, if an customer did not agreed on their terms then he did not have to order. Bitmine had always clear tos regarding refund and delay.
Beside, you still did not addressed that they did not delivered theirown asic. Maybe you have pejaduce of some sort, dunno.
Will let reader decide at their own dilligence and not speculation and competitors game.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 14, 2014, 12:59:08 AM

#13

Hey thanks for summing up all this.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 14, 2014, 10:33:26 AM

#14

Quote from: Moebius327 on February 14, 2014, 12:59:08 AM

Hey thanks for summing up all this.

No problem. It's due a weekly update tomorrow.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 10:29:27 AM

#15

This company? appears to be a scam

http://www.xtrememiners.net/

Based in Germany. It is, apparently, a legal requirement in Germany to have a contact phone number and a tax file on business web sites.
Company address is bogus.
Phone conversations are apparently being done through VOIP and are routed from Hong Kong China via the USA.
Email responses are 6 to 8 hours out of sync with Euro times.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 03:48:01 PM

#16

You may want to update the information for drillbit to state 'Uses Bitfury and Avalon chips'. As the current drillbit 8-board uses Bitfury chips, same with the current drillbit USB thumb.

The next models are using Avalon v2 chips and it looks like they will come as a USB thumb, 8-chip board, and 16-chip board, but they aren't released yet. Honestly, I doubt many of the Avalon boards will be made, I'm pretty certain they will go either back to Bitfury (if avail) or whatever the next generation chip is/will be.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 06:07:38 PM

#17

Quote from: tk1337 on February 17, 2014, 03:48:01 PM

Oops my copy paste mistake, fixed now.

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 09:34:51 PM

#18

bitmine ontime: delayed

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 09:43:34 PM

#19

Understatement of the Year

BFL Legitimate? Soft scam Wink

Thanks for the laugh

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Re: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide

February 17, 2014, 11:26:45 PM

#20

Quote from: psycho-pass on February 17, 2014, 09:34:51 PM

bitmine ontime: delayed

They're currently 'No (yet)', because not only are they late but they've also never delivered anything before this series.

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