Hello Dargo,

I've been trading with Kraken now for a few months and I noticed few hours ago that your site seems to load slower than normal. I checked my internet speed and I can verify that it is not in my network's problem. Do you happen to have issues right in your site?

Hi Bonez0r

One more thing:
You wrote: "to make sure that person can't withdraw the money and disappear with it".

1. If you launder money, this is a crime. To act like if someone is committing a crimt must not be based on a suspicion, but on a court's ruling.
It's not the way that some person of kraken's staff can decide whether or not some user is laundering money. (you know it's bullshit anyway, as the real money-laundering happens in USD through casinos and hotels, as well as the known money-launder banks like HSBC. They lauder 5 x the complete amount of all bitcoins per day.)

2. "That person" is identified to them. Just because my passport, I used as ID-document to Kraken 3 years ago, expired 2 years ago, I'm still the same person. I receive the money to MY bank account inside an EU-country under my name. I withdrew to that account some times, already.

How could I possibly "disappear with the money"?

Even if someone is really laundering money on kraken, it's not kraken to procescute and investigate, punish and take, but LAW ENFORCEMENT. Police, judges, lawyers would be engaged in this. And in case that person would manage to disappear, law enforcement would have to hunt him - NOT Kraken.

The ONLY think kraken must do, is NOT LET HIM TRADE. The "laundering" is done through TRADES, not by withdrawing!

But they LET ME trade and then immediately take my money!

If they have reason to believe some user is laundering money, they must
a.) not let him trade
b.) denunciate his data to LE

They are not allowed to:
1. punish the person
2. take the persons money/assets to enforce some action/reaction on the person

If the person accused for money laundering can proof before court that he is NOT guilty, he is compensated for the losses created by the investigation and confiscation of his funds.
When kraken desides that "now we have all information", I may simply continue, but the damages their actions made won't be compensated.

Kraken behaves clearly UNLAWFUL. Many companies do, but that is no argument. But Law Enforcement is happy about such unlawful companies, because they make their (LE's) work easier. So kraken behaves UNLAWFUL, but in prospect of LE - thus no one cares.

Kraken can simply blackmail people, hold funds, create damages - and if it proves that the person did nothing wrong, the damage remains on the suspect. Police cannot do this, so their happy if companies behave like private LE without the DEFENSE for the suspect.

In normal juristical view, the suspect is NOT guilty as long as his crime has not been proven.
For Kraken, I'm GUILTY (I'm treated like a criminal - damage is put on me) - as long as THEY do not have the TIME to accept my documents! You see the difference?

Regards
BS

You are understandably upset, but imo there are some flaws in your arguments. I would have left it alone but you make it look like Kraken has done something horribly wrong, when this is imo not the case at all and people might get the wrong impression.


A hypothetical money launderer would use a fake ID. With an unknown identity, how could there ever be an arrest, let alone a court case? Impossible. The criminal would just withdraw the money and disappear without a trace. So authorities do the only thing they can think of, which is to keep the money hostage (or rather they force Kraken to do it for them). Kraken has no choice in this, they either do what the law says or they will be punished.


In this example you're not allowed to take action until you actually SEE a crime. Simply looking suspicious isn't enough. The moment a crime happens, the criminal can be stopped by you, other bystanders or police. This is possible because the criminal is physically present. You can't compare it with an online place and no physical presence and no verifiable ID. The regulations in those two cases are different because the situations are so different.


Going back to your marketplace example: like you said, the law says "when you see a crime, you must try to hinder it or try to hold the suspect until police comes". Suppose you hinder a thief in a marketplace and the guy tells you: "We came to a situation when a private party (you), purely because the law says so, can apprehend another marketplace goer (me) to enforce a wished-for behaviour, so you are a private LAW ENFORCEMENT?"
...No, you, as a third party, are required by law to take action on behalf of the law enforcement. Just as Kraken is required to hold your money until they can verify your ID again. If they break this law they could lose their license to do business.


But really Kraken should have given you ample warning before the ID expired, like six months in advance. If they gave no warning then that's obviously bad, but if this would the normal procedure we would see the same complaints all the time. Probably an unlucky mistake in your case. Hope they get it sorted out soon.

Post Scriptum:

AND, the company MUST show evidence for either of the two cases: present a changed account or BTC-address to the user and ask him, whether it was changed by him - or present the court's command on which the company is acting against it's customer.
AS Kraken has not presented me either, neither of the two cases can be claimed.

Kraken didn't even bother to quote their T&C's and the applying US-regulations and laws. If law would offer the possibility to a company to hold their customers funds against the will of the customer, it would 100% as well offer the way for the customer to defend himself against miss-use of this law by the company.
If Kraken would present the laws and regulation, I would know what official to contact to make them aware of a company that may miss-use anti-laundering-regulations to scam people. If they hold my money out of nothing and do not offer a fast and secure way to update the ID - and need many days to check it! - Why shouldn't I suspect kraken of behaving in a criminal way?

The most suspect thing is that they simply put it on hold. One would expect that there is a clear explanation, including quotations of T&C and US-laws according to which such an action is lawful and giving information about how to defend oneself: where to complain to and what officials to contact in case that miss-use is suspected.
I asked 3 times for the contact to the boss of "William, the investigator" (support) to complain: NO ANSWER.
That was when I decided to go to this forum and into public. They play ON TIME. It's 100% a play on time and that reminds me on how MTGox went down: they put the withdrawals of more and more people on hold.

It seems, they even do not care about my POSTING HERE. No answers, no quotations, no support giving a CLEAR information.
The first message from support (after I noticed after two days + weekend that the money did not arrive on my bank's account and wrote support, what is the problem??), so their first answer was: "we need ID-Photo and know whether you re-sell or not. Present the asked information and the money will be released immediately."
I answered: OK, but I don't want to send via unencrypted e-mail - and upload is not possible (because of KRAKEN, not me!)
Kraken answered next day: OK, send PGP encrypted to support@kraken.com
I got the key from their website and sent.
And the next day - Kraken wrote: wrong PGP key. You need the key from the support, not the exchange (homepage). Get it at MIT.
I wrote: I do not know how to get the key from MIT. Please send your key attacted to message or downoad-link or GPG command-line for importing
Again, one day waiting, then Kraken answered: OK, attached

At first I did not find it attached as it was a LINK in the message below and send a very upset reply. Then I found it, imported it - and forgot to encrypt the mail, so I did what I wanted not to: send my photo-id via e-mail unenrypted. I then encrypted it and send once more encrypted, to the PGP key the support (William) sent me.

But, instead of releasing the funds, kraken wrote me again, one day later:
Thank you, we will have it decrypted and checked. Due to so much work, it will take some time.
No contact to someone in the company to complain to (MUST be present according to law, is called: "quality control"), no instruction how to complain at official places.

But Kraken does not seem to care much about such POSTS like mine in the public, do they?
Why? Because the shit hit the fan already and my post is the smallest problem they are facing?
Wouldn't you expect a serious company to make sure that people like me who post in public forums would be openly cared about in the way that other customers see that kraken does it's very best to solve the case fast and making upset customers happy again - that would be good PR, no?

Dargo might argue, that he has PCT and does not work on Sundays... no one works? Too many tickets or TOO FEW WORKERS LEFT?
It is at least outrageous, if not criminal.
And Dargo, if you disagree, prove that: quote the rules and regulations where they apply, offer the contact for complaining, the steps for juristical defense against kraken, what court to contact and all the "normal stuff", banks and all companies present to their customers in case of disputes.

And another day passed... NO ANSWER from Kraken, no money from kraken... just SILENCE.

Support stopped communication with me after they could not deny having received the information they asked for.

Anyone with an idea what to do now?

To my understanding, companies like Kraken are required to whore themselves/to be seen to, go through the motions of a client/s audit process, every now and then, to tick boxs for the authorities. Maybe you were the sacrificial lamb in this case.
Not the first time ive read posts, where the user is made to feel like a criminal, all of a sudden.

   

Feature request: the ability to filter (not just sort) tables. It would be great if for example i can enable a filter and see only a certain currency pair in my closed orders.

Well, no news today, but it seems I'm the only one complaining - so it does not look like "more and more withdrawals are on hold".

I tend to believe that (like stereotype wrote:) "Maybe you were the sacrificial lamb in this case".

Thus, it looks like I need to wait. And wait.

https://www.kraken.com/en-us/help/fees
If you put an order on the book (limit order) and it gets filled, the fee is 0.16%
For a market order, the fee is 0.26%