I am not sure if you might not be overly acknowledging the knowledge that people have about bitcoin.

Part of the representation regarding how much people know about bitcoin would be their level of bitcoin adoption, and we likely don't even have 1% of the world's population that has bought any meaningful amount of bitcoin.

Sure you are saying a similar thing as me when you say that people have heard about bitcoin but they don't know what it is, and from my perspective, their lack of knowledge about bitcoin is even more lacking than you seem to be implying that it is - and even people in bitcoin might not even have a lot of confidence in being able to describe the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins or to be able to understand how a bitcoin is mined or to contemplate ways to hold their own private keys and perhaps to be able to do it in more than one way including recognizing that there is a difference between bitcoin and lightning network - and perhaps they don't need to know all of those things in order to be able to hold bitcoin or to know what bitcoin is and how to hold it in any other way other than on an exchange and getting price exposure, if that might be what they are seeking.

We remain in very early days in terms of bitcoin adoption and the expansion of many of the network effects, including the 7 network effects described by in 2015 Trace Mayer.  We could go into each of the 7 network effects and elaborate on them, and so we have 8 more years of bitcoin's affects on the world to show the ways that those 7 network effects can be considered and elaborated upon.


I agree that anyone could be subjected to price pressures, and even uncomfortable feelings when BTC prices go down more than 50% and stay down for long periods of time, but it would be an error to speculate that all investors are impacted in similar kinds of ways - because there can be both a lot of value in time investing in a variety of asset classes and having wealth in a variety of ways that might cause a person to be less concerned about great losses in the quantities of BTC wealth when they have their wealth secured in other ways, too.

So sure there could be similarities of "kind" of disappointment, but still a great amount of differences can be felt when "everything that you own" is in an asset class, versus having back up sources of wealth and/or income that might cause for a considerable amount of cushion - even if the quantities of wealth loss might be measured in similar ways or if they are the same kinds of losses.

Well, yeah if you have one reliable source of income, then it might not be so much of a big deal, if various traumas might come in the market, but at the same time, we cannot even be 100% sure that our "reliable source of income" is really going to be reliable under all possible scenarios, so it would tend to be good to have some other income sources, or even somewhat liquid assets upon which value can be drawn in the event of an emergency (or shortages in cashflow/increases in expenses).

We might not realize how correlated some of our expenses, our assets and our cashflows might be either, until some kind of a crisis event hits...

One thing regarding income sources that might come from working, sometimes it might be more feasible to attempt to find a new job (or new income source) while we already have a job, and in that regard, any of us can look like a better candidate for a "new position" when we already have cashflow options and we are not in a potentially desperate situation.  On the other hand, some jobs are physically, mentally and even time consuming in such ways that it may well be better to drop that income source when searching for new and/or better cashflow (income) opportunities, and/or it could be the case that some opportunities might not come to you unless you really are able to gear up towards whatever new income that you are seeking (could be retraining, could be learning new things, could be working on presenting a new package and even demonstrating skills and abilities to learn in such new area that contributes to your appearing to be a good candidate for the new kind of work.. and implicitly there might be some circumstances in which a pay cut might need to be taken to progress to a higher paying job or even sometimes a paycut might still be a more valuable kind of a job if you are not having to spend as much energy and time on it or alternatively that you get a lot of pleasure/meaning from the new work). 

Having multiple assets ensures we're not overly reliant on a single investment like Bitcoin. It's also important to stay calm and follow strategies like DCA during bear markets. Preparedness and a balanced portfolio are key

Really? You think that's just what it is? How about the decision to do so? How about those less experienced people who are yet new to Bitcoin? They may have other sources of income, but because they have not really experienced how prices can be so volatile, they can sell out of pressure just for the fear of not totally losing their invested capital.


Bitcoin is not just an investment for the rich; it is an open source for the common man and for anyone in society; it was not built for just some kind of person. Anyone who really understands how Bitcoin works can invest in it.

{In layman's explanation now (let me explain), anyone who eats three square meals a day, who is able to cater for all his primary needs, and still has something to save, can invest in Bitcoin.}

When you say Bitcoin investment should only be taken serious by rich people, I can also inform you that there are people who are spending lavishly every time because they are so rich, but they are not investing anything in Bitcoin. Some have heard about Bitcoin, but they don't have a full interest in it. That's why I say anyone who has a good understanding of Bitcoin can buy it and hold it for the long term or short term, depending on what they want.

Having other income sources is just one thing that can help you not really get affected phycologically if your investment is not making a profit, just like during the Bitcoin bear market.



I don't know if you read correctly what Sir JJG said above and where he said that "we cannot be 100% sure that what we see as a reliable source of income can be reliable in every scenario."

So since you already said you don't believe in carrying all your eggs in one basket, diversifying your investment or source of income is a wise thing to do.

You must understand the context before doing that comment, see what they are talking about, they have talked about investing strategies in Bitcoin and they say about the bearish market, of course the subject already has knowledge in investing in Bitcoin. I will agree with you if the characteristics of the subject are a beginner who does not know the market and investment starts in Bitcoin, even though they have other sources of income they are not necessarily holding their bitcoin when they find a bloody market.

Other income is very important so as not to interfere with the ideals of long-term investment in Bitcoin.

Storing all assets in Bitcoin is a good decision (to be faster in a heart attack and higher stress) lol.
With a fluctuating market, it is certainly not a good option for financial health.

 You are very correct, one needs a stable cash in flow to help you have that confidence to hold for long. when I first started my bitcoin journey, I thought because bitcoin is volatile in nature, I should and sell when I make little profit each time. This was from my poor understanding of how bitcoin accumulation works. I have a job,so I went to my Boss and told him that I want to go on a month vacation so that I can put myself together, which he gave me  the permission to go. After a while I discovered that if I don't continue to work,I will end up eating up all my bitcoin investment in order for me to take care of some major responsibilities. After one week,I said to myself if I want to have a good fraction of bitcoin then I need to go back and resume work. Immediately, I called my Boss that I will becoming back in three days to resume work and he was surprised. Actually, I intended to stop the work from my vacation but when I realised that for me to be able to accumulate more bitcoin I must have to work. Presently,am only accumulating and not thinking of the price if it dumps or pumps anymore as long as am holding for a very long period of time,that I wouldn't regret it.

This is the worst financial strategy to store all your assets in bitcoin because when their is a drastic dump in price,it will look like your doom day has arrived. A very bad way of financial management.

Those who store all their asset in bitcoin will end up not being able to hold all their bitcoin for a very long time,they will only be able to hold little fraction of 20% after a long time, due to the fact that we will be faced with an unforeseen financial challenges and before you know it since this is there only assets they will have no any other option but to use from their portfolio to tackle the problem.

It is only those who have overcome financial stability that can store all their asset in bitcoin. I don't think it will even be possible to store all your assets in bitcoin and still be able to hold for long. Even the whales or someone that have overcome financial stability is because he has a business or businesses that is fetching him his funds daily. If this type of person   has like $1M and invest all into bitcoin doesn't mean that he has invested all his asset in bitcoin because his business is still on.

What I want people to understand is that if you are not the patient type with your savings, you will find it difficult to hold for long. Let's look into Laszlo case 13yrs ago,he used 10,000btc to purchase just two pizzas and today 1btc is worth $26+. Imagine if he had all those btc with him presently. Imagine someone has 0.1btc right now and was able to accumulate more bitcoin gradually and does DCA till he realizes 1btc and hold it for 13yrs,he will be very happy seeing the worth of his investment.

Sure.. but there is still a balance even if choosing when to start diversifying if at all.  Of course, a very early investor might spend a lot of time in which s/he has no other investment except for bitcoin, so it does not make a lot of sense to diversify for the mere sake of diversifying - even though I do seem to understand and agree with your point that at minimum, there may well be a need for some cash reserves in order to be able to take advantage of likely ongoing and potentially severe BTC price fluctuations and surely one of the ONLY thing that might get closed to being guaranteed in bitcoin is that it is going to be volatile.. even if we might not know exactly in what direction such volatility might end up happening.


It seems to me that the vast majority of more well to do investors (and seemingly smarter investors) are likely going to have a certain amount of diversification in the assets that they hold - but philosophies in regards to how much diversification is preferable is going to have a decently large amount of variance in terms of both personal preferences and also in terms of some personal characteristics of the investor.. so I doubt that there is any exact one stop shopping when it comes to the question of diversification or not or how much to do it.. and could become more problematic for investment newbies to be believing that they need to diversify for the mere sake of diversifying. which largely might end up reflecting more that they both don't know what the fuck they are doing, they are diluting their investments and also they might just be blindly throwing darts with some kind of expectation that one or more of them might get lucky.


I am not sure if that is a good example.  I doubt that Lazlo is having very many regrets.. he likely has plenty of dee cornz... and surely in the early days someone needed to be spending some bitcoin in order to help to figure out price and to just get bitcoin exchanging hands beyond the geeks who were mining it (and one of those earliest mining geeks was Lazlo).. and I am pretty sure that there are other stories about Lazlo having plenty of bitcoin too.. but no need to really get into those kinds of stories here.

I do understand your point regarding guys who sell way too many bitcoin too soon, and make all kinds of errors in which they are either forced out of their bitcoin or they fail/refuse to recognize bitcoin's value because they may well be valuing bitcoin too much in terms of wanting to buy inferior goods or services or to make inferior investments rather than hanging onto some of their coins and spending their dollars or other fiat first - or maybe sometimes, if they had given the value of bitcoin matter some thought (in terms of potential future value), they may well even have some other assets that they could be spending, rather than spending their bitcoin.


You know that past performance does not guarantee future results, and for sure many of us likely need to go through some balancing in terms of how we are going to manage our BTC - and sure, largely I do not disagree with you, since I have spent the last 9.5 years mostly accumulating bitcoin, but I also did most of my BTC accumulation in the first few years, so sometimes at a certain point, any of us might be able to figure out that we have enough bitcoin, so part of any balance that we might strike is going to come from a certain amount of trying to figure out how much of a balance of BTC that we might try to keep, and perhaps trying to plan to make sure that we are not giving up too much BTC along the way.. but if we had figured out in 2015 that we needed to get to 100 BTC in order to be at fuck you status if the 200 moving weekly average reaches $10k and then we would be a millionaire and we would be set.  However, in 2020, we realize that maybe we might need to be at an evaluation of $2 million to be a fuck you status since $1 million might not work anymore.  So then part of the question might be regarding whether we might need more bitcoin or not, if we had already reached our earlier goal and maybe we even met the later redefined goal, since currently it takes only around 80 BTC to be at $2million valuation..and so we are largely above fuck you status.. if that might be part of our aspiration in terms of both having enough and then figuring out if we need to exceed those amounts or where we might believe that we might want to hold some of our other assets, if we might not have anything other than bitcoin.. but as we already discussed, there may well likely be some preference to start to diversify once we start to build our investment portfolio to higher and higher amounts, and maybe at a certain point, we have way more than we had thought that we would end up needing (and that would not be a bad problem to have).

But yeah if you are referring to members in their earlier accumulation years, they may well be struggling to get up to 1 BTC, and maybe it could take years and years and years to get up to 1 BTC, and maybe they might be better off setting lower accumulation goals for themselves, if they happen to just be getting started in their BTC accumulation journey.

Well if you have pretty decent knowledge (and/or expectations) that the BTC price is inevitably (or nearly inevitably) going to be volatile, then you can attempt to prepare yourself financially and psychologically for that.. and surely the ways that people prepare themselves is likely going to be different, and surely some people do not even realize that bitcoin is likely going to continue to be volatile (and/or they don't engage in those kinds of financial/psychological preparations to actually prove that they understand the inevitability of BTC's ongoing volatility).


Personally, I don't believe that you are using good logic in terms of the extent to which share prices in something like an exchange would actually reflect the extent to which they are going to be profitable, and surely with any business that you buy shares, whether you are referring to exchanges or other things, there are going to be a lot of risks (and costs) regarding execution, so even if they might not be purposefully trying to cheat you out of profits, the investment thesis for shares in an exchange hardly seems to be as straight forward as you seem to want to make it out to be.

In other words, you don't even necessarily need to be greedy.

Bitcoin seems to be one of the best asymmetric bets that is available to a wide number of people, and holding the assets yourself gives you price exposure and also control, even though surely there is also likely to be some learning curve matters that people may well not be competent enough or spend enough time to make sure they learn how to hold their coins and to lessen various aspects of risks in holding your own coins and being your own bank... so yeah, holding your own coins has risks and responsibilities too and it's not exactly without some potential problems that might include getting duped into thinking that you are controlling your own keys when you are not recognizing some of the vulnerabilities, which seems to be one of the matters related to Ledger wallets in recent times that people are realizing that they had likely been putting way more faith into the security (or even the exclusivity of the private key ownership/knowledge about) of Ledger wallets than they might have deserved.


You have to make those kinds of calculations for yourself.

Sometimes you might well end up taking a perfectly profitable investment (such as bitcoin) and then cause it to become less profitable (or adding more unnecessary risk) because you are greedy or you believe the the amount of the likely return of the underlying (bitcoin in this case) is not enough for you.

By the way.. in 2017, I was having some forum interactions (and it may well have had been another forum) with some shitcoiners who were proclaiming that shitcoins were better than bitcoin because bitcoin does not have the ability to go up as much, and largely between 2015 and 2017, bitcoin had gone up 78x (
from $250-ish to $19,666-ish), so it seems difficult to argue that there was some kind of "need" to be in something else.. something more profitable... but people (shitcoin pumpers) are nearly always making those kinds of dumbass arguments.. and some people get tricked out of their bitcoins and into inferior investment based on those kinds of considerations.. .and surely you can do what you like while it seems to me that bitcoin is already a great ass investment, so the extent to which you need to try to make more might be questionable.. even though perhaps it is a position-size question rather than any kind of absolute answer regarding if you have to choose one over the other, if you come to some conclusion that you want to some price exposure to some kind of an investment that relates to bitcoin.. but is not the bitcoin token itself.


You seem to be really getting into this topic, which is largely irrelevant to this thread.. or maybe it is a kind of side topic that you might want to pursue in some other thread or to find a thread that is more related to that topic...

It's not good to get too far away from the topic of the thread, unless kind of a incidental consideration.. members (and even admin of the forum) likely prefer that we at least try to stay on topic and not to deviate very much... even if some deviation may well be tolerated.. but it seems that in good faith, we should at least try to stay somewhat closer to being on topic.


Yes.. you are pointing out some of the issues that may well not be worth making your own investment more complicated than it needs to be, but sure no problem.. people get distracted into all kinds of stuff that causes them to spin their wheels rather than appreciating a good thing when they see it (i.e. investing directly into bitcoin.. and trying to stay focused on the prize rather than easily getting distracted.. but hey, whatever, you do you.. maybe you will strike it richie while many of us bitcoiners are all crying that we "ONLY have bitcoin"...   ).. hopefully you do not lure too many bitcoiners out of their BTC investment and into inferior distraction-based products.  

I agree with you on this, because every investors know how many bitcoin they want to accumulate. It all boils down to the mindset,income and bitcoin goal of individuals. Mr A might choose to start accumulating his bitcoin till it gets to 2BTC because he knows that in few years he can achieve that,and Mr B can also feel that all he needs is 1BTC and he try his best to accumulate this over some period of time.  Likewise,Mr C can come up with not having an actual amount which he wants to accumulate but because he loves and believe in bitcoin, he decided to just keep on accumulating to see how many Bitcoin he can accumulate for a long period of time without a target in his mind. What you said it is true,some investors accumulate to their bitcoin goal and after some years, they decide in double their portfolio due to some reasons.

Yes when one feels that he has accumulated enough for himself,he can diversify to another asset. Some investors believes that there is a particular fraction of their funds that should be invested into various assets. For example, if he wants his bitcoin investment to be 10BTC,immediately he accumulates to that amount,he will stop and diversify to some other assets and nothing will change his mind because this was his plan.
I must say that information is power. Personally, I was thinking very shallow on my bitcoin journey, I thought that if I can accumulate up to 0.5BTC that I have attained my bitcoin goal,not until when I saw this thread and started reading about members contributions on accumulating and holding for a very long time. My mindset towards my portfolio changed and I got motivated by you and some others to just keeping on accumulating more bitcoin, and I am very happy with this understanding and knowledge on the secrete towards accumulating and holding for as long as possible. My plan initially was to hold a certain amount of bitcoin till the bull run and sell off to make profit and buy at the dip again but that plan has been canceled. So I will say that newbies who only have little target to accumulate little btc is because of lack of proper knowledge and mentorship or guidance that will inspire them to go beyond their bitcoin accumulation goal. Newbies will lack that insight to see the potential of bitcoin in the nearest future on their own. This is what will make them set lower accumulation goal for themselves.