I would honestly rather be the person who had the opportunity to have learned, TRULY LEARNED, about Bitcoin during 2013 and bought with most of my savings just as I did during 2019. That would be for my main investment wallet placed in cold storage, never to be touched until "Bitcoin at six digits". Then I would DCA for small amounts placed in a hot wallet.

But that said, in a very long time frame, it wouldn't matter. We are not HODLing mainly because we could profit in fiat, although it's nice to see that our investment is positive.

Yep.. .it is interesting how each of us took different approaches to our BTC investment, and we defend the approach that we took, and so in that regard, there may well be some individual particulars (rather than objectivity) that causes us to attempt to justify that what we did as the better of the approaches for our own circumstances... so in that regard, we also recommend such approach to others - the approach that we had taken.

I am kind of thinking that any reasonable delay towards investing into bitcoin would have been backed up by having some reservations about the fundamental nature of the asset and/or perhaps not having enough finances to be able to begin sooner rather than later... and generally speaking with the vast majority of foundationally sound investments, it is better to have more time in the market rather than attempting to time the market.. even though of course, in retrospect, we can many times point to examples in which there had been a subsequent dip in the price of the asset in order to justify waiting rather than getting started in investing right away.

For example, sometimes we could look at an investment and we can see that it is in the midst of a "blow off" top, yet we still do not necessarily know how long the blow off top is going to continue and we also do not know whether the price is going to correct back down into the price that we currently see.. so in some sense in order to prepare for either direction, it could well be better to just get the fuck in rather than waiting around... and yeah, there may well not need to be any ball to the walls type of an approach, but still to get some stake in the game in order to be prepared for either price direction - especially since if you do not get in at all then you are ONLY prepared for one direction (which is down)...

And, so in regard towards assessing fundamentals, any of us could look at bitcoin and attempt to categorize it as merely the same or similar to other investments that are available, and surely that could well be and continue to be a mistake that many people make when they are looking at bitcoin and they are fucking around with inaccurate comparisons, so when the time comes to invest into it, they end up playing their investment card way too timidly because they have failed/refused to adequately research into figuring out what bitcoin is.

So yeah.. do what you want.. wait if you believe that is a better approach.. advise others to wait if you believe that is a better approach, and hopefully no one is going to blame you too much because you ended up spending way too many efforts timing a dip that may or may not come..

And, perhaps one of the main differences that I am attempting to emphasize on a regular basis is to make sure that you are prepared for either direction, and you do not get sufficiently/adequately prepared for up by waiting... but yeah, you can do what you want.. and wait.. and thereby have fun staying poor.

 


 



Yes.. there are a lot of ways to fuck up in bitcoin, but if you still end up mostly accumulating and holding, you still end up profiting, and surely there are many times in which I have seen people have failed/refused to invest aggressively enough and failed/refused to protect their stash enough.  I might even be a bit guilty of that myself (at least the second part) since I have lost some of my BTC towards keeping too much on exchanges, and sims attacks can be fairly brutal when they happen, even though there seems to be more awareness of sims attacks now as compared with the past, but the practice of sims attacking continues to take place a lot.. and probably is more prevalent now as compared with my early 2017 sims attack situation.


For sure, one of the problems that anyone can have is to figure out how to get bitcoin in their particular area or the various ways to get it, including potentially attempting to network with other bitcoiners who might be in their area.. and surely there are some areas in which there are not as many bitcoiners or there are not clear ways for bitcoiners to meet and to know each other in terms of having some ways to build a circular economy... so in that regard, if you new more bitcoiners as a newbie, then there could be ways to both learn directly from more experienced bitcoiners and also to perhaps even buy directly from someone you know or who you get to know in your local area.

There have always been some aspects of bitcoin that have been scary that might dissuade newbies from wanting to get involved in bitcoin and perhaps some of the more recent attacks on exchanges might cause people to worry about getting involved in bitcoin, even though maybe the better course of action still might be to get involved in bitcoin, but to figure out ways to self-store decent portions of whatever bitcoin that you end up buying.

So, yeah we are getting back to the various ways in which just getting started and getting involved is likely going to be the better of the teachers, even if many of us likely shared in our having a lot of misconceptions regarding what is bitcoin and the fact that we can buy small amounts at a time - so long as we can find someone or some entity willing to sell us bitcoin in such small increments.... and the longer that we are into bitcoin, the more we learn and likely the more that we could well end up being inspired to learn more.

Of course, people likely already have demands upon their time, so there is a certain amount of dedication that is needed when learning and getting involved in any new thing - so in that regard, there are needs for motivation to believe that it is important to learn about something like bitcoin, and frequently people might get overwhelmed because they think that it is too confusing, and so in that regard, frequently there are ways to attempt to just learn little by little and the more that we learn then the more that we are able to understand more complicated aspects of bitcoin, and there are a lot of us who have been in bitcoin for a very long time, but still we may only know certain parts of bitcoin or certain angles of bitcoin, so it is not easy to really get some comprehensive understandings of all areas of bitcoin - but we still do not need to know everything or to know all areas in order to get started buying bitcoin and to attempt to learn while investing, and even just figuring out ways to buy small amounts such as $100 per week or even $10 per week, while ongoingly setting aside some time to learn more about it at the same time while initially building a position that might be a pretty small position  and some people do not even have a lot of spare cash, so those people likely are better off by just investing small amounts as they are doing their initial learning about bitcoin.. and yeah, they may end up with regrets that they did not invest more earlier on, but that's just the way of the world.. not everything is fair, and if some of us recognize that there might be some important aspects of bitcoin that we might be missing, then we might end up getting motivated to spend more time learning about it rather than either waiting or just taking a long time to learn about it.

On a personal level, I am not against exchanges or the use of exchanges, and I believe that it is our rights to be able to use exchanges, and it is quite likely that various governments are overreaching in their various ways to prosecute and/or to attack exchanges.

At the same time, each of us has to be practical in terms of our living in the real world and how much that we might end up losing if we have too much of our money in places that are targeted by governments or they get shut down and/or we might not get our money back.

We also have to figure out in accordance with our jurisdiction (the area that we are) how much there might be attempts to punish bitcoiners, or maybe they say that they are ONLY targeting shitcoiners or scammers, but in recent times, there frequently is not very great clarity in terms of what is being stated as being lawful or unlawful and there are surely evolving aspects of the law in accordance with bitcoin, so we should be attempting to be careful in regards to how much that we might end up becoming a target or if there might be ways that we can engage in reasonable economic activities using bitcoin and also to preserve and prepare for our own futures using bitcoin.

I am not against the government and I am not against banks, yet there still can be issues in which different entities and even representatives within the various entities have differing opinions regarding what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, and some of them are wrong and uninformed, and others merely have differing perspectives.

Sometimes there might be abilities to move from one jurisdiction to another (which sometimes could be moving to another country), but for sure, not everyone is easily able to move and some people do not want to move to another country, yet there also sometimes could be locations within certain countries in which there is more bitcoin-friendliness or even more bitcoin related networking opportunities, so the options of what is available and how to fit those matters into our lives is not going to be the same for everyone.  If we live in a very hostile jurisdiction, then surely we may well want to choose whether we buy bitcoin or if we might try to be more secretive about buying bitcoin.. but still there could be some risks in some jurisdictions, but the mere fact that there are risks should not necessarily cause someone to completely forget about bitcoin since there may be some ways in which we are being lied to about bitcoin and about options in regards to bitcoin because some people are trying to dissuade us from acting within our own interest which is to make sure that we have a sufficient and adequate amount of bitcoin that fits our personal circumstances.  There are some folks who lie about this matter and say that we should not have or even want bitcoin because everything is fine with fiat systems, and most of us should be able to recognize and appreciate that such assertions about "no problems with fiat" are not true....

Also, there are some people who believe that they should convert completely to bitcoin, and I don't believe that is a good idea either, and there are likely needs to be able to operate in both the fiat and the bitcoin world while we are transitioning to bitcoin, and it could take 100 to 200 years to convert to bitcoin, so many of us might not even live to get to some place in which bitcoin is the complete standard, so there surely are going to be a lot of needs to continue to have exposure to various fiat systems for many years to come.... and personally, I believe that a lot of those guys who are engaging in behaviors to have "everything in bitcoin" are likely making themselves too much of a target.. but surely some people may well want to be targets.. and that is their choice..

The many opportunities that exist are sometimes often wasted because they are too worried about the fud circulating out there. Some of them have great belief and that is the characteristic of those who are successful in the end. Indeed we have seen a in the movement of btc when it reached $ 69k and a year after ATH BTC fell to a price of $16k now on such occasions there are still some people who have weak hands selling at $16k and if we look at this price even we compare of course BTC has turned things around from $16k up to a price of $28k as of today and its just lucky for those who HOLD.

My conclusion is that maybe it's never too late to buy BTC even though we will buy in small amounts but if it is done regularly every week then we will also have the hope of getting big profits when Big Pumps come or when new ATH is reached.

It is very relevant and I think it is also important to develop a personalized strategy that takes individual financial and psychological circumstances into account, rather than trying to pursue risky tactics. By investing with patience and discipline, anyone can potentially profit from Bitcoin without thinking too much about the short-term market fluctuations of Bitcoin's growth over time.

We keep going over the same points or perhaps very similar points.. and sure no problem.. yet you keep raising your points as if they were good (or something novel), and they are not.   

Part of the reason that your points are not good is because you assert them as if they were absolutes and you fail/refuse to put actual numbers behind your assertions or even to really flesh out the ramifications of what you are saying.. which seems to be a kind of expectation that anyone may well be employing DCA merely because they bought too high..

I say that the principle of DCA and getting the fuck started applies no matter the size of the budget, and really any of us should be figuring out what our budget is in order to know how much we are able to DCA without running out of money.. whether that is $100 per week, $10 per week or some other amount that is within our budget, and it is up to each of us to figure out how large our budget can be, and sure $100 per week may well be out of reach of a lot of normies, so if you do not like to use $100 per week as a presumptive budget then tell me what kind of a budget that you would like to use.

$10 per week?   or is that too much?  $10 per month?  

The budget can be whatever.. and any of us should still be able to employ DCA strategies and also hold some of the value aside in order to be able to buy on dips, too... and so how to divide that up, depends upon the numbers, and yeah if the cashflow is not consistent than that is another obstacle, but it does not necessarily preclude DCAing.  On the other hand, if the finances are so bad that a person is not able to actually put aside any money for investing, then that's another story too, but most people can figure out ways to put aside some kind of money by either earning more or spending less, and surely some folks live in place in which the salaries are low and other people live in places where things cost a lot... but that does not necessarily mean that they are not able to save or to invest, and once there is some amount of cashflow that can be saved or invested, then the strategies that come from that tend to fall into the main three which are DCA (which is the best) buying on dip, and lump sum.. and of course, HODL is likely a kind of fall back position.. which might mean that some screw up had occurred or maybe some other irregular kinds of circumstances.. which is not most people's situation.. even though everyone likely has various phases in their lives where it is more difficult to generate cashflow or to have any discretionary income.. and so of course, anyone who lives with exceptional circumstances needs to account for their exceptional circumstances, yet I am surely not going to presume exceptional circumstances.. so we probably should be trying to talk about base case and more common strategies and scenarios that should be applied rather than assuming exceptional circumstances.... which seems to be what you continuously want to do... talk about exceptional circumstances as if they were the base case.

So, yeah maybe $10 per week feels like it is not enough to be able to divide or whatever, but when we are presenting these kinds of hypotheticals, it is best start with some kind of a number, and if your whole budget that is available for investing into bitcoin is $10 per week, then maybe you might choose to ONLY DCA with $5 per week and you save the other $5 per week for buying on dips.. the fact of the matter is that you can work your amounts into your various categories, even if they are small amounts, and hopefully the longer that any of us invest into bitcoin, then the more likely our numbers should be getting BIGGER.. and surely no guarantees that the BTC price is going to go up, either, and it could take a long time to build up our investment portfolio, too.. especially someone who has a budget of $10 per week is going to likely build an investment portfolio that is 10x smaller than the person who has a budget of $100 per week and the one with a $1,000 per week will be able to build a portfolio 100x the size of the $10 per week person and 10x the size of the $100 per week person..  

Anyhow, we can go back over these various hypotheticals if you want, and I think that you are wrong when you are suggesting to wait for a dip in 2019, when you could have had started investing in bitcoin in 2013... It is just a ridiculous assertion, and yeah maybe you were too scared and whatever, and maybe you did not learn about bitcoin well enough for 6 years that you should have studied it a wee bit better, and it does not even matter what the price is going to do, get the fuck started, and don't be waiting.. and in the end, you can do what you like, but really getting started seems to be the best approach for anyone (historically it has been the best strategy to get started investing in bitcoin sooner rather than later, and really there is no evidence that either bitcoin's investment thesis is weaker with the passage of time, and there also is no evidence that similar kinds of assertive/aggressive accumulation strategies are not going to continue to have better chances to pay off rather than either whimpy approaches or wait and see approaches,  and even if the amount that is invested into bitcoin is a relatively small amount, after a couple of years of investing $10 per week, or whatever, anyone who had already been investing into bitcoin should be in a way better position to reassess his/her particular situation, and if the investment happens to be in the negative after a couple lf years, the right strategy is probably to just keep going/continuing with the same approach.. and maybe after 4-10 years of continuing to invest the results will start to be felt a bit better.. and even though there are no real guarantees, it is likely that we are going to have better understandings regarding whether or how to tweak our BTC accumulation techniques rather than than if we had waited several years before we even got started... So part of the point has frequently been to get started sooner rather than later... and to have time in the market rather than timing the market.. and again.. no guarantees.. do what you like... even though I continue to say get started sooner rather than later and at least figure out what your plan is going to be.. even if it ends up being a relatively whimpy plan... It is better to have a plan, especially in regards to something like bitcoin, than to not have a plan.


You seem to be mixing up DCA'ing and buying on dip.  By definition, you do not run out of money when DCA'ing because you are buying the same amount every week mo matter what.  

Many folks may well run out of money when buying on dip because there is a tendency to deploy extra money as the price is dipping, and as we know it keeps dipping... so part of the problem with any kind of trying to time the price direction is still figuring out how much of a dip is a dip... and it is not easy to get it correct, but with DCA, you don't try to calculate, you just establish a budget and you keep buying.

Of course, you can combine DCA and buying on dip, but that still is not necessarily asserting that you should give up on one or the other, but you could try to play both of them, and you should not get them mixed up..... even if you might say you are DCAing when you are not because some folks may well be buying more when they believe the price is lower and then buying less when the price is higher, and then such folks are NO longer DCAing, but instead employing some kind of a hybrid model.  

You can create separate budgets for buying on dip and DCAing and you can also have certain strategies that you employ if a large sum of money comes to you in which you allocate parts of the money towards each of the three categories... Let's say, for example, that all of a sudden you get an extra $2,400 that comes to you, and you won the lottery or something.  You could do whatever you like with that $2,400, but you also could assign 1/3 to each of the three categories.... $800 towards lump sum investing in which you buy it right away, $800 towards DCAing where you might spread it over 26 weeks or some other amount of time and in that case 26 weeks would give you nearly $31 per week.. and the remaining $800 could be for buying on dips, and maybe you already have some value that you have assigned towards buying on dips, but you just end up adding the $800 to your already existing plan.. so maybe every time the BTC price drops $1,000, you buy an additional $100 (so that prepares you down $8k from the current price.. so currently might prepare you down to $20k), but you may decide that you are not going to start to buy on dips until the price gets below $24k, and so then you might be able to add $100 per $1k drop down to $16k.. and of course, you can divide it up however you like in regards to how far you would like to prepare down for while also understanding that if the price does not drop down then you are not going to end up using that money.. and if the price drops down further  you are going to run out.. so you have to figure out for yourself in regards to how you would like to balance those three categories.. and if you would rather wait than to have a plan, then that's your choice... or if you want to hypothesize that the problem is that you are too poor and blah blah blah.. then that's your choice.. I still believe that you can plan whether you are rich or poor and you just figure out how you want to deploy your budget in a way that you believe is good for your situation... and if you believe that waiting is what you want to do, then that's your choice.. even though I doubt that waiting is a good plan.. and I continue to repeat that.

in implementing a buying strategy i adjust the passive income to a ability level that i can be sure will not be touched over a long period of time in making an investment, there is no compulsion to increase the buying percentage i mean if i regularly invest $15 in bitcoin i keep doing it with  capital of $15 every week because it will not burden me in financial problems. it's a fairly small number, but if I succeed in 10 years it will be quite a fantastic savings that I have made.

I think if $15 per week is invested in bitcoin then we are not worried about every correction that occurs even when the price goes up 15% we don't see the profit coming to us because the capital we invest is quite small but the understanding here we will continue to buy in the long term  long until in the end we will have 1 btc.

What you seem to be doing is make very long posts that doesn't really disprove what was discussed before. Because, truly, you can budget your money as well as you can, but the facts remain that capital is indeed truly limited. You can decide to make your Bitcoin purchases $1.00 every week, and still nothing will change = capital is LIMITED. My only opinion on the matter is, because it's limited especially for plebs like us, we should be more careful and look for better entries. Plus I don't know why you find that very laughable, or why if some poster disagrees with your opinion, he should be ridiculed or he should "have fun staying poor". We're here to learn from each other, not to be ridiculed.

I know I'm a mere pleb, but ridiculing plebs because you simply disagree with them makes you look like a charlatan in my opinion. I respect you, but you're giving me a reason not to. Please don't be like franky-101.

My posts speak for themselves, and if you believe that they do not disprove anything or provide any sufficient explanation, then you are free to have your opinions regarding what you believe that my posts accomplish, or don't accomplish.


Yes.. we disagree on that point. You can keep believing it all that you want, and likely when you say it, then I am going to keep saying that it is wrong.

In essence the mere fact that you have a more limited budget than someone else does not necessarily cause a buying on dips to become better than DCA.

Let's say that someone can ONLY save $1 per week, then yeah, maybe it does not make sense to buy bitcoin with that until it gets up to $100 because of various kinds of fees or whatever, so maybe such person has to wait in order to be able to purchase BTC.. the same could be true with $10 per week, it might not make sense to buy $10 per week if there are not ways to buy such small amounts in whatever geographical location is the person, so in those kinds of circumstances, there may be needs to save up.

Surely, I am a proponent of weekly DCA... rather than spreading out DCA into larger increments, yet in the end each person is going to need to assess his/her situation in order to figure out the level of practicality, and so in the end maybe we are getting back to your point that you believe that DCA does not work for poor people, and I am saying that is baloney even though there could be some circumstances in which there needs to be some strategies for relatively small amounts - especially if there are not ways to merely just invest into BTC on a weekly basis.. and I had already mentioned the case that if the total budget is $10, then maybe a newbie entrant into bitcoin accumulation might choose to ONLY allocate $5 per week to DCA and the other $5 would be allocated to buying on dips, so there can be ways of dealing with those lower numbers and figuring it out, but surely if the person is having difficulties establishing accounts or connections that allow for such small amounts of buys (or maybe the fees are too high), then they might need to do more research to find other means or perhaps the either front load the deposit of money into an account or in the less preferable case scenario they might end up doing what you say, which is to build up their amount that they have before they would deposit it into an account... but still i doubt that you are describing a base case or a usual case rather than just trying to suggest DCA is not good for poor people, which is wrong thinking.. and has historically already been wrong with people, maybe even like yourself who might have had been waiting around when first finding out about BTC rather than getting started.  and surely in May 2016 (when you got involved in BTC), you would have been way better off to get started right away rather than waiting around, and another thing even if it would have been advantageous for you to lump sum into BTC at that time, that is not realistic either for someone to already know that they want to lump sum into bitcoin or that they would have had confidence right when they come to BTC, even though it would have had worked out well, but we cannot look back and say "I should have blah blah blah" but instead it is better to deal with what the circumstances right in front of a person are at the moment when finding out about BTC and considering getting into BTC, and the overwhelming majority of times, the best starting approach will be some variation of DCA and getting the fuck started right away rather than waiting around.


If you take a position that I consider to be ridiculous, then maybe I will choose to attempt to ridicule that position.   I don't see a problem with that... We are talking about substance, not people.


You seem to be misreading, or maybe taking matters too personally.  You agree or you don't agree with the various approach that I am talking about, and from my perspective I talk about best practices, including that I believe that DCA is better than buying on dips and lump sum investing, but those two can be incorporated into any approach (and probably should be as a person becomes more familiar with the BTC markets and their position), and another thing that I advocate is personally tailoring any approach to the individual circumstances, so we can have both best practices and aspirational goals, while at the same time attempting to work up to the aspirational goals... so still DCA is the best to get started and then to study BTC (an your own personal circumstances) as you go, while at the same time tailoring the approach along the way.. because in the end, each person is responsible for their own circumstances, rather than necessarily following something that someone said on the internet, and if you believe that DCA is not good at any particular time and you keep telling people (in your real world circumstances) to wait rather than getting started, then that's your choice.  There are almost no circumstances that I tell people to wait, because it can take a while to get started, and surely it might be the case that getting started is just setting up accounts and figuring out some contacts, and even if the newbie to bitcoin person might have a budget of $100 per week, they might start out by just buying $10 while they are figuring things out - especially since the very beginning may well involve quite a bit of time spent to learn and even some scariness over some of the complications of setting up accounts, finding people to sell BTC to them and even figuring out how to store their BTC. 

It is no walk in the park to get involved in BTC, especially in recent times with some of the seemingly industry-wide hostilities and also a lot of the various crashes and scams that we have been seeing in recent times, including that there seems to be a quite a bit of blaming of bitcoin for these kinds of matters or even purposeful confusion and obfuscating of what is going on in order that bitcoin is blamed for bank failures, scams and other kinds of ways that people have been getting reckt in recent times.


Oh gawd.   

Actually, big returns can be expected form big investment. But those who expect from the lower investment that would be foolish in some sense. However, in case of long-term Bitcoin hoarders may differ. They can expect something big. Because we have an approximate idea of how big it can be in the long run. A long time ago I heard a word  by Elon Musk that if your investment is not big then your income will not grow. This is absolutely true. Because even a few days back people were unaware they invested in various scam projects and made big money through big pumping events. Many have lost large amounts as well. Nowadays people are now very aware of that situation. That kind of opportunity no longer exists. Now you have to choose between bitcoin or top alts coins for reliable investment. After a long period of investment if you don't make more money as expected then the investment seem to be worthless.